Jump to content

Welcome to eMastercam

Register now to participate in the forums, access the download area, buy Mastercam training materials, post processors and more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Use your display name or email address to sign in:

X7 Verify - Doesn't Verify Ghosted Operations?


Mick
 Share

Recommended Posts

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't X6 Verification verify all selected operations even if the ghosted operations where selected?

 

Update: Yes, I just checked, and it does.

 

And now with X7 it doesn't unless the Stock Flip is "unghosted"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't say I know a reason, but I could guess a 100 different things none of which help you in your current issue. A direction change came about and that has caused things to change. It is heading in the right direction, but for those of us who are not in the majority when it comes to doing things we seem to be the ones effected by it the most. Submit the issue is only thing I can say. Make them aware and we will see where the things all get sorted out in the next release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe it was changed due to popular demand.

There was talk of adding an off/on switch, but I don't think it

made the cut

 

Popular demand? Hmm, I've had three people mention to me about it, and the fact it is annoying.

 

I guess they, and I, are in the minority. :)

 

Just another - sign for me against the "new" verify. Yes, maybe I'll submit it to QC. I won't hold my breath though :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like the ability to verify ghosted operations back too. I use it more for getting the STL to visually look like the actual part than anything else. A switch would be fine.

 

Newbeeee, just curious what's the purpose of having ghosted ops if you don't post them or use them in verify? No sarcasim intended, just honest curiosity.

 

They way we program here (been programming here on and off since 5.5 almost 17 years ago and old habits die hard if ever) chamfer tools never cut the SLT in verify so I use ghosted ops of the posting ops with a negative value in the stock to leave on walls in contour ops to show the chamfer. It helps me when cutting different sized chamfers or chamfers on different height features so I can visually see the chamfers. All the ghosted ops should end up with the same value to get the chamfer size correct. If not I need to adjust a Z usually.

 

Always wanting to learn and improve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The development of the new backplot and verify tool gave us an opportunity to take a step back and determine what we are trying to achieve with these tools. The ultimate goal is to give the user a visualization of the in-process through to the final part. Identification of gouges and undesirable motion, and confirm the part is ready to manufacture. Mastercams operation manager is not a sequencer, meaning all operations aren't necessarily posted and output. We asked why people ghost items in the interface and we received feedback that it was to prevent the items from being posted, often these ops are 'what if' scenarios or alternate methods to machine so keeping them is desirable. In backplot/verify we wanted to respect what the user was intending and by ghosting we are being told don't output. If you have a large number of ops and take the time to ghost some, we still want the user to be able to select all and have the ghosted ops not verified.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just throwing my two cents in, I would prefer ghosted ops to not show as well.. I use a lot of transform toolpaths so the original paths that I transform are ghosted so they wont post.. that way I only get the transform ops and not the rest.. both in verify and in the nc code.

 

That said.. it seems like it wouldn't be a huge thing to add a radio button to the verify options page for Verify Ghosted Operations though

 

Then the verify could show them or not regardless of whether they are ghosted or not.. but rather based on the radio button.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other place that "Ghosted" operations are used a lot is when using a 2D toolpath to provide the "NCI" for a 3D Project toolpath. In these cases you absolutely do not want the "Ghosted" operation to post, and having to include it in Verify or Backplot is a waste, because you only want the "result" of the projected toolpath, and not the ghosted operation.

 

If you would like to be able to use "Stock Flip", but don't want it to post anything out in your NC code, you can make a simple modification to the 'pstck_flip$' post block to prevent output.

 

Here is the original post block:

 

pstck_flip$	  #NCI code = 901 available variables:
  #stck_spindle, stck_init_z, stck_final_z,
  #stck_chuk_st_z, stck_chuk_st_x,
  #stck_chuk_end_z, stck_chuk_end_x
  pheader$
  if toolchng <> two, ptoolend$
  toolend_flg = zero  #Do not execute ptoolend again after xfer
  !spaces$
  spaces$ = zero
  pbld, n$, "M00", e$
  if prv_spaces$ > 0, " ", e$
  "(Flip Stock)", e$
  spaces$ = prv_spaces$

 

I've added some code here to check the value of 'miscops_mi10$'. When that misc. value is set to '1', it will no longer post out to your file. That will give you a "switch" for now that will allow you to have a Stock Flip operation, but not have it post anything to your NC code...

 

Code added:

pstck_flip$	  #NCI code = 901 available variables:
  #stck_spindle, stck_init_z, stck_final_z,
  #stck_chuk_st_z, stck_chuk_st_x,
  #stck_chuk_end_z, stck_chuk_end_x
  if miscops_mi10$ <> one,
    [
    pheader$
    if toolchng <> two, ptoolend$
    toolend_flg = zero  #Do not execute ptoolend again after xfer
    !spaces$
    spaces$ = zero
    pbld, n$, "M00", e$
    if prv_spaces$ > 0, " ", e$
    "(Flip Stock)", e$
    spaces$ = prv_spaces$
    ]

 

You can always set the Default value for Misc. Integer #10 in the 'Stock Flip' default, so that way you won't have to remember to set it...

 

Hope that helps,

 

Colin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other place that "Ghosted" operations are used a lot is when using a 2D toolpath to provide the "NCI" for a 3D Project toolpath. In these cases you absolutely do not want the "Ghosted" operation to post, and having to include it in Verify or Backplot is a waste, because you only want the "result" of the projected toolpath, and not the ghosted operation.

 

Colin

 

+1000

 

I project NCI all day everyday and I for one am Very happy that ghosted paths are not verified, simulated or posted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gcode, started to explain the way/reason why we do things and figured nobody wanted a bible. :thumbup: So yeah definitely old school (actually had to draw CDC lines and no associativity on anything) and having two diff programming methods would confuse our operators to no end and I don't need the hassle.

 

Newbee, Colin, as soon as I posted the translate ops hit me as well as surface plunge tool paths. Don't use them very often so I tend to forget about them. 95% of my ghosted ops are for visual only because of the way my shop want programs done.

 

Not saying the new verify is bad, but I'm still not liking it a lot (needs to grow on me some more I guess). I think the worst part is that you can't save the majority of the options as defaults. The majority of the ones that I reset are the ones you can't set in the XML file (read about modifying in another post) and least not that I can figure out. Maybe that'll get fixed soon?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can color me as one of the people that didn't want ghosted ops.

 

When you have 400 operations and 30 ghosted ops and you do a CTRL + A to select them all, going back through to unselect them 1 at a time is a MAJOR PITA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, my only issue is the Machine Simulation will not simulate transformed operations and when you ghost the original ops for the transform then you get the other issues. I am okay with Verify not supporting ghosted operation not a compliant of mine, but I do like the idea of a toggle to do it or not if it is an easy option to implement if to difficult then it becomes a matter of training. I understand where to people who do not develop stuff just adding the option seem quick and easy, but I fully understand it is not always the case. Anyway it is good when we can have a discussion and not a gripe fest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the great thing I really like about the new Verify is using stock models for my parts and operation. I may do a family of parts in the same file. There could be 4 to 10 different parts in one file and 20 to 30 different stock models. I have one stock model for each part at the start of the operation for Verify purposes. When I go to Verify I gran that stock model and off to the races. I also really like building my operations and verifying what I am doing as I go along and along. Having to stop my programming to verify was the old way, moving along as I do the job is my new way and I see some major advantages in that process over the old way. Just like anything we all want it now and wish we had everything we want in the software to be there, but as the old saying goes Rome was not built in a day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked this up, because I had a Stock Flip operation that was ghosted (it is a dummy Stock Flip to simulate the machining of the second op). With the operation ghosted, it would show the flip in X6 Verify, but wouldn't post. I typically have an Operation Group for Op1, then a Dummy Stock Flip Operation Group, then an Operation Group for Op2. Op1 and Op2 groups have their NC filename set to **** Op1 and **** Op2. It works great.

 

Colin's post edit mentioned above would work around this, as I very rarely post a programme that has an actual Stock Flip function in the code. So I would make it not post if Miscops_mi10 equals zero, so that I have to set it to get output. Thanks for the tip Colin.

 

A switch would have been a nice option though :) Still, it is what it is :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Join us!

eMastercam - your online source for all things Mastercam.

Together, we are the strongest Mastercam community on the web with over 56,000 members, and our online store offers a wide selection of training materials for all applications and skill levels.

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...