Record Programming time

[Clayzer]

Hello,

 

I have a major problem involving MasterCam and was hoping you guys could help me out.  I work in a shop where the CNC operators both program tooling and run machines.  They can do both separately and at the same time.  The problem I am having is knowing how much time they are spending programming.  Both while the machine is Idol and while the machine is running.  I have software that monitors the machines but not the programming.  There is a manual system in place where the operators keep track of their time spent on a job but the operators dont fill it out all the time which makes out data useless.  It needs to be automatic.  

Do you guys know of any system out there that can track when the operators are programming while the machine is Idol and while its running automatically?  

[Bob W.]

ERP software.  I am looking into it for pretty much the same reasons, though data collection is only one aspect of it.  In my scenario I would give the operators badges with bar codes on them.  When jobs came in I would create the job in the system.  This job sheet has all operations laid out with bar codes next to them (programming, milling op 1, milling op 2, deburring, etc...).  When the employee begins to work on that job they grab the bar code reader and scan their badge, then scan the operation they are working on and it clocks them into that job.  I am thinking a machine could be treated as an employee and given a badge, then clocked into jobs when they are assigned to that machine.  This way the software can track the employee's time and the machine's time independently.  I haven't purchased this yet, I am still mulling it over to see if it will make us more efficient or add a layer of bureaucracy.  The software I am looking at is called E2.

[jeff]

 but the operators dont fill it out all the time which makes out data useless.  

 

Tell them if they don't want to keep track of their programming time, you'll hire someone else who will.  

[LA CAMmer]

I use the free version of a program called ManicTime.  It tracks everything you do on the computer.  I can see exactly what time I started and finished a job, how much time I spent in each software package such as SolidWorks or MasterCAM, and how much time I spent surfin' eMastercam.

 

Works very well for me.  It's a big help in filling out time sheets.

[YoDoug®]

I use the free version of a program called ManicTime.  It tracks everything you do on the computer.  I can see exactly what time I started and finished a job, how much time I spent in each software package such as SolidWorks or MasterCAM, and how much time I spent surfin' eMastercam.

 

Works very well for me.  It's a big help in filling out time sheets.

 

Looks interesting. Is it able to tell the difference between a window/program being open in the background versus actively working in that window/program? For example: lets say one of Joe's guys opens Mastercam and then goes off for a 45 minute bathroom break, does it know when a program is open but inactive? how long does it give you before it considers it inactive. If I open Mastercam to program a part than spend the next hour in a tool catalog looking up tooling does it consider that time in Mastercam inactive?

[LA CAMmer]

There is a setting for that.  I have mine set at 10 minutes.

[Joe788]

I use the free version of a program called ManicTime.  It tracks everything you do on the computer.  I can see exactly what time I started and finished a job, how much time I spent in each software package such as SolidWorks or MasterCAM, and how much time I spent surfin' eMastercam.

 

Works very well for me.  It's a big help in filling out time sheets.

 

Sounds awesome. Downloading now.

[ToolMan184]

Bob,

 

One word about E2......Ruuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnn. Get Job Boss. I had E2 for over 10 years and switched to Job Boss a couple of years ago. E2 support is not so great and their inventory side will bite you in the arse.

[Bob W.]

Bob,

 

One word about E2......Ruuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnn. Get Job Boss. I had E2 for over 10 years and switched to Job Boss a couple of years ago. E2 support is not so great and their inventory side will bite you in the arse.

Thanks for the heads up.  How do you like Job Boss?

[crazy^millman]

I liked Job Boss when I was using at a shop. I was the admin for a while with it. Once you set up all the cells and makes all the track able stuff it does a great job of helping you forecast, schedule and see real cost of parts manufactured. That is the real reason anyone gets a ERP system.

[Bob W.]

and see real cost of parts manufactured

This is where I will see the biggest benefit.  Did you often run into situations where the actual profit was way off on what you thought it was or would be?  It seems like a pretty good learning tool and over time it will really help in quoting, as data is collected.

[Del.]

I don't think I would like someone putting me on the clock.

[YoDoug®]

I don't think I would like someone putting me on the clock.

 

I would hate to have a boss looking over my days down to the minute, but it could be a great personal tool to help manage time effectively.

[Del.]

I would hate to have a boss looking over my days down to the minute, but it could be a great personal tool to help manage time effectively.

They posted out a paper here one time and I led the company in Internet time.    

[Bob W.]

I don't think I would like someone putting me on the clock.

I agree and as the boss I really don't want to track my employees' time to the minute.  I have been in that situation in the past and I hated it.  The data would really help in determining EXACTLY how long these projects take though, rather than what one thinks they take.  It also determines the actual resources that go into a project.  There are parts where I feel that I could program them in an hour but if the data tells me it actually took three hours I need to adjust my quoting accordingly.  It would work really well for cleaning up those processes and it would get rid of the pie in the sky perceived performance.

[Bob W.]

All I really care about is if the machines are running or not.  If they are all running and the guys can keep them running like clockwork while playing poker, then by all means relax a little and take a load off.

[crazy^millman]

All I really care about is if the machines are running or not.  If they are all running and the guys can keep them running like clockwork while playing poker, then by all means relax a little and take a load off.

 

Funny you say that I taught a guy about computers allowing him to play solitaire while his machine was running almost 20 years ago. Rest of the guys were pissed because they worked on conventional machines and didn't have the break in between parts running. Welding supervisor went to the owners to complain about his lack of performance. I pulled all the job cards for our area in one month as we did about 4 times as much billable work as the rest of the whole company combined. Owner told him when he could produce that kind of money out of his department he could complain until then shut up and let me run my area the way I saw fit. Same guy I had running the machines went on to become a very good programmer and he started out sweeping floors in our shop and no one wanted to give him a chance. I took him under my wing like I have many other over the years and taught him. Making money is easy with CNC Machines IMHO, problem is getting the process down right to make it and not lose money doing it.

 

Bob you are going about it the right way and good to see what is going on. I always thought I would rather know what things really are than wonder what they are.

[Clayzer]

All of these responses are great!!  
​Jeff- I am the Industrial Engineer for the area not the manager.  Ive asked the managers to put some heat on the operators to fill out the documentation correctly but nothing happens.  Im sure there are some IAM union complications in there somewhere.  We are an emergent, one off part job shop that can make just about anything.  All the parts are different which means programming times are all over the board.  We also hand out overtime like candy at a parade.  No expectations for programming time, unpredictable work statement, unlimited over time.  Recipe for disaster.

LA CAMmer- I have heard of ManicTime but haven't been able to use it yet.  Ill dig into it some more.  

ToolMan184- Ill look into this software as well. 

YoDoug®- As an IE, its my job to maintain performance and find ways to keep those spindles turning.  I used to monitor production CNC machines.  It was easy.  Work came in and work went out.  Now Im in an emergent shop making one off parts that were needed yesterday.  I honestly do play big brother from time to time but it is never to jump on operators and crack the whip to make them work faster.  I need data like this programming time so that I know how much wip the area can really handle, set expectations, prep for production increases.  If a guy is slacking, I get with the operator and we hash out a plan to boost things back up.  We pay these guys for 40 hours a week and OT when hot jobs need to get out.  But when they screw off during the week to push on schedule work behind schedule to get OT, thats not good business.  I know where you are coming from though.  I used to be a machinist and hated it when my boss barked at me to get work out.  He didn't know my machine went down 6 times that day and had an oil leak.  All he cared about was output numbers.  

Thanks for all of the great input.  This whole thing has been a major issue but its complexity makes it difficult to solve.  Ill take a look at some of those software suggestions.  Hopefully they will help me solve this problem.  

[Bob W.]

Making money is easy with CNC Machines IMHO, problem is getting the process down right to make it and not lose money doing it.

Yes, making money with a CNC isn't too hard and folks can make a good living.  People that are constantly refining processes, leveraging technology, reading and increasing their knowledge base can make piles of money.  I was astounded at how much faster we got work done when we started constantly refining the programs of returning projects.  There were some production jobs where we literally cut cycle times in half.  Then we pushed to the point where we were getting 100% performance out of each tool and at the same time we implemented tool life management on the machines as to stay ahead of tool breakage.  That was like turning on the afterburners and it cut cycle times by another 30%.  All of this has made me want to look into buying another shop to fuel growth.  I don't have any hard info but I get the impression that many shops leave a lot on the table.  They are sitting on projects that could be running at $300 per hour but they are running at $80 per hour because "that is the way we have always done it" and they can squeeze 15 hours of cutting time out of a $50 end mill...

[BenK]

Yes, making money with a CNC isn't too hard and folks can make a good living.  People that are constantly refining processes, leveraging technology, reading and increasing their knowledge base can make piles of money.  I was astounded at how much faster we got work done when we started constantly refining the programs of returning projects.  There were some production jobs where we literally cut cycle times in half.  Then we pushed to the point where we were getting 100% performance out of each tool and at the same time we implemented tool life management on the machines as to stay ahead of tool breakage.  That was like turning on the afterburners and it cut cycle times by another 30%.  All of this has made me want to look into buying another shop to fuel growth.  I don't have any hard info but I get the impression that many shops leave a lot on the table.  They are sitting on projects that could be running at $300 per hour but they are running at $80 per hour because "that is the way we have always done it" and they can squeeze 15 hours of cutting time out of a $50 end mill...

 

I have yet to work for a shop that has an owner/management team with your mindset. I see shops so stuck in their ways that you have to wonder how they're still in business. Shops that rely on 20-30 year old technology that think they are cutting edge and get upset when you point out better tools, machines, technology or processes. Its frustrating.  That's probably the number one reason I'm trying to get my own programming business going. Most shops leave easily 30% profit on the table by not continuously trying to improve. By the time they realize it often times its too late.

[Guest]

All I really care about is if the machines are running or not.  

You could track this pretty easily using Custom MACRO B and DPRINT. :

[Bob W.]

You could track this pretty easily using Custom MACRO B and DPRINT. :

The two horizontal machines actually have the macro data output function and we track the information that way.  It is a really slick feature that exports selected macro variables to a data file which can be taken from the machines at any time and opened up in Excel.  I don't know what the size limits of the data file is but it is cumulative.  I can pull it off the machine and I have all of the cycle time information going back a few weeks.  This macro function is hard coded into our post so it appears in every program's header to start the clock and right before the M30 to end the clock.  Custom export parameters can also be set up in the control for programs that need more detailed information than simply cycle times.  It is really useful.  I haven't set up any in depth data analysis to interpret this information yet but it is on my list.  Ultimately I would like to get to the point where I can get a pretty clear picture of machine up time, etc...  Right now we just monitor cycle times as we are improving programs.  It is tough to do this stuff with such a small shop because its implementation all falls on my shoulders.

[The_kid]

I'd like to see this and wonder what kind of data points does/can it collect?    

[Mike-T]

me too !!

[Bob W.]

I'd like to see this and wonder what kind of data points does/can it collect?    

It can collect and export anything you can store in a macro variable, it is just very easy and self contained.