Mori Quality

[The Cathedral]

Josh--

 

We're an all Okuma lathe shop. We've got old xxxx and the newest LBs and LTs, and we've got more on order already. The machines are incredible and will hold whatever tolerance you want. The one thing you have to do your due diligence on is tool holders. Make sure you find a quality supplier of live tooling, if that's what you're going for; the last thing you want is for all that Okuma money to go to waste between the turret and the part.

[Guest]

...

I've seen seen newer models (5 axis dmu) taking a beating, major cuts and withstanding it very well... I'm curious now though

We've replaced 4 NMV3000's in the last year with MAM72-35V's. There is NO comparison between the two. More will fall to Matsuura.

[gcode]

We purchased an Okuma VTM 1200 5 axis lathe last year.

To dare, it has not had a seconds downtime and is deadly accurate.

Okuma costs a bit more, but is worth every penny

[?Mark]

Funny you said that Tom...our new okuma 5axis is down again today...lol

And the support is just argh.....

[dstryr]

We've replaced 4 NMV3000's in the last year with MAM72-35V's. There is NO comparison between the two. More will fall to Matsuura.

Where can I buy some of these used NMV3000s?

 

[Guest]

Why would you settle for that POS? There's a reason why you rarely if ever find used Matsuura MAM72 5-Axis machines... let alone a 2011 or 2012.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I found the rankings listed here quite interesting.

I have no idea if they are complete hogwash or not.

Keep in mind that they are based on revenue and not units sold.

 

In order.

 

Trumpf
(Germany)

 

Shenyang Group
(China)

 

Amada
(Japan)

 

DMTG
(China)

 

Komatsu
(Japan)

 

DMG Mori Seiki Co. Ltd.
(Japan)

 

DMG Mori Seiki AG
(Germany)

 

Schuler
(Germany)

 

Jtekt
(Japan)

 

Okuma
(Japan)

 

MAG
(U.S./Germany)

 

Makino
(Japan)

 

Doosan Infracore
(South Korea)

 

Haas
(U.S.)

 

GF Mach'g Solutions

(Switzerland)

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/270234/largest-machine-tool-manufacturers-based-on-revenue/

[Guest]

Not too surprising... I did expect to see Mazak on that list. I'd NEVER expect to see a Matsuura, Mitusi Seiki, Kitamura, Nakamura-Tome, etc... on that list. Those are niche machines and the ones on the list are for the most part (minus a couple) everything to everyone builders.

[Joe788]

I found the rankings listed here quite interesting.

I have no idea if they are complete hogwash or not.

Keep in mind that they are based on revenue and not units sold.

 

In order.

 

Trumpf

(Germany)

 

Shenyang Group

(China)

 

Amada

(Japan)

 

DMTG

(China)

 

Komatsu

(Japan)

 

DMG Mori Seiki Co. Ltd.

(Japan)

 

DMG Mori Seiki AG

(Germany)

 

Schuler

(Germany)

 

Jtekt

(Japan)

 

Okuma

(Japan)

 

MAG

(U.S./Germany)

 

Makino

(Japan)

 

Doosan Infracore

(South Korea)

 

Haas

(U.S.)

 

GF Mach'g Solutions

(Switzerland)

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/270234/largest-machine-tool-manufacturers-based-on-revenue/

 

^That site harvested those from the Metalworking Insiders Report Scorecard. Some of the private companies, like Mazak, don't report anymore. Mazak, Mitsui, Matsuura, and some others haven't reported in 5 years or so :

 

 

You can see the whole list here:

 

http://www.metalworkinginsider.info/?event=scoreboard

 

The most fascinating thing is how tiny the machine tool market really is compared to other industries.  There are people right here on the forum who work at machine shops  that have higher revenue than well known brands like Mitsui Seiki, Fidia, Kuraki, etc.

[Newbeeee™]

In the press here, they just announced that Haas topped the $1billion in sales for 2014.

An increase of 11% over 2013.

They built 14000 units in 2014, up 22% on 2013...that's a huge amount of machines!

And export received 53% of the machines.

[Guest]

Matsuura hasn't reported since '09 and I didn't even see Yasda.

[dstryr]

Why would you settle for that POS? There's a reason why you rarely if ever find used Matsuura MAM72 5-Axis machines... let alone a 2011 or 2012.

Because I could put out a lot of work out on a used one and I'll never be in the position at my size of company to purchase a new MAM/NMV style machine.

 

If they are such a POS machine lets start the bidding at $100k lol.

[Guest]

Because I could put out a lot of work out on a used one and I'll never be in the position at my size of company to purchase a new MAM/NMV style machine.

 

If they are such a POS machine lets start the bidding at $100k lol.

Maybe POS is a tad harsh... But... They are CERTAINLY NOT the "MAM killers" as advertised.

 

You could probably get into a new Matsuura MX-520 for less than what that Mori will run you. That would be a machine that will still be machining well when your grandkids are old enough to run it. :

[dstryr]

Maybe POS is a tad harsh... But... They are CERTAINLY NOT the "MAM killers" as advertised.

 

You could probably get into a new Matsuura MX-520 for less than what that Mori will run you. That would be a machine that will still be machining well when your grandkids are old enough to run it. :

What does the mX-520 go for ? Ball park? Feel free to PM me so we dont hijack thread.

 

I've quoted every brand except matsuura because I figured theyd be too high.

[cincy k]

You need to look at matsuura!

[dstryr]

You need to look at matsuura!

I have 2 4+1 machines from a Matsuura approved builder.....lol. Does that count?

[Sticky]

IIRC the mx520 is base is near 300k

[Joe788]

We've replaced 4 NMV3000's in the last year with MAM72-35V's. There is NO comparison between the two. More will fall to Matsuura.

Technically you've only replaced 1, at darmark, since Warmelin still has both of theirs (even though they added a MAM). Mori sold more NMV3000s in the time they've existed, than Matsuura has sold 35Vs in that same time. I hardly think 3 for sale by two users is a solid condemnation. Just a little food for thought

 

That said, I'd take a MAM72-35V over an NMV every day that ends with a Y. Great theoretical engineering doesn't always lead to great real world results, as Mori's "octagonal ram" and "DCG" attest.

[Guest]

Technically you've only replaced 1, at darmark, since Warmelin still has both of theirs (even though they added a MAM). Mori sold more NMV3000s in the time they've existed, than Matsuura has sold 35Vs in that same time. I hardly think 3 for sale by two users is a solid condemnation. Just a little food for thought

 

That said, I'd take a MAM72-35V over an NMV every day that ends with a Y. Great theoretical engineering doesn't always lead to great real world results, as Mori's "octagonal ram" and "DCG" attest.

That's not all. That's all YOU know of. Food for thought. :

 

I'd love to mention the many that are afraid (yes I said afraid) of getting a Matsuura because they need their other equipment serviced and they don't want to go to the bottom of the list with Ellison when they dump that boat anchor. A certain fixture manufacturer - (NOT Raptor BTW) in southern California cannot rough on their NMV...

 

When you advertise that you're selling a "MAM-Killer" for 25-30% less (back when Methods was the importer), you can sucker a LOT of people into buying a lesser, unproven piece of equipment. : Head to head, option for option for option, we'll beat the tar out of an NMV hands down. : On EVERY day that ends with Y. :

 

Octomom ... WTF is that???

[Joe788]

That's not all. That's all YOU know of. Food for thought. :

 

I'd love to mention the many that are afraid (yes I said afraid) of getting a Matsuura because they need their other equipment serviced and they don't want to go to the bottom of the list with Ellison when they dump that boat anchor. A certain fixture manufacturer - (NOT Raptor BTW) in southern California cannot rough on their NMV...

 

When you advertise that you're selling a "MAM-Killer" for 25-30% less (back when Methods was the importer), you can sucker a LOT of people into buying a lesser, unproven piece of equipment. : Head to head, option for option for option, we'll beat the tar out of an NMV hands down. : On EVERY day that ends with Y. :

 

Octomom ... WTF is that???

I'm sure you're aware that machines have to go somewhere if they're replaced. And only one of those NMV-3000s in CA have gone anywhere other than the original owner. I could point you to three or four NMV3000 owners who would bet you 3/4 million dollars that the NMV is superior to the MAM. Would they be right? That's in the eye of the beholder, but the machines are certainly making good parts day in and day out.

[Guest]

My territory is not limited to the PRK and I find out about stuff in other regions.

[Guest]

I could point you to three or four NMV3000 owners who would bet you 3/4 million dollars that the NMV is superior to the MAM.

I could point you to an Obama fan too if you want. :

 

 

Good night Joe.

 

See you here bright and early.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I have no doubt that individual machine models within Mori-DMG's line are certainly good machines.

 

However, there has been a marked and substantial drop in the overall quality since the merger/acquisition of DMG.

If you compare the design element of NMV and the MAM on paper, they look comparable.

However, I would certainly be wary of any new model that was manufactured after the merger/acquisition of DMG.

 

Mori made its name on the old SL lathes.

What comes as a lathe today from Mori is a mere shadow of the machine it used to be.

 

Today, both Doosan and Samsung makes lathes that are superior to Mori-Seiki in quality, performance and longevity.

[MIL-TFP-41]

The whole Methods/Matsuura divorce fiasco soured us on both companies. This is a reason we picked up a NH5000.....and it is a superior machine to the one sitting right next to it, an H-Plus 405. (The NH is a 2012 machine, the H-plus is 2011, so its a apples to apples comparison) Now that I am seeing the NH line is going to sh!t....

 

Can one even get a NH in the states now? All I see is the NHX line.....still waiting for some opinions on the NH vs the NHX

[Guest]

The whole Methods/Matsuura divorce fiasco soured us on both companies.

I can understand being sour on Methods, but why Matsuura? They wanted nothing more than to grow their business and an antiquated and VERY expensive Importer business model was NOT going to get it done. ANY time you add a layer to the distribution channel, you're adding cost. I would argue it was a NVA cost but that's my personal opinion. Matsuura sales have improved vastly since the divorce. Of course, a sizable reduction in the machine's price does not hurt either. : It is now cost competitive with other builders (still a bit more, but justifiably so IMHO), they offer a better quality machine tool than most of the competition and you get support from the builder in the US.

 

JM2CFWIW YMMV