X9 Mastercam Verify v Simulation Verify

[Newbeeee™]

So what's the difference?

They 'look' similar - the Simulation Verify says it's module works.

The Mastercam simulator says it's Mastercams.

I'm assuming here that the Mastercam one is Module Works 'heart' but with Mastercams GUI.

Or is there a difference on how they work and if so, should I be using one over the other?

BTW - I'm talking Simulation Verify and not full machine simulation.

One thing at a time...

Cheers

[Guest]

My understanding is that the verify was written by CNC Software.......while as you point out the Simulation is from Moduleworks

[kunfuzed]

What do you power users prefer?  I've been using standard Verify 98% of the time since Simulation came out simply out of a lack of taking the time to familiarize myself with it.  Have been working with Simulation a little more at a time, and find that it loads and runs faster on large toolpaths, and like that Backstep ability.  I have found that it lacks the ability to use Stock Model for stock, which I find frustrating, and I havent figured out where stop on collision is yet, or if it checks against fixture collision.

[Newbeeee™]

We just use standard verify. In 9, it is very good imo.

But all we're doing is 3ax or 4ax work and all vertical.

 

I can understand setting up simulation for hori work (back of tombstone where you can't see) or obviously 5 ax for holder collision, but for what we do I haven't found the need so haven't invested the time to get to know it.

[RaiderX]

What do you power users prefer?  I've been using standard Verify 98% of the time since Simulation came out simply out of a lack of taking the time to familiarize myself with it.  Have been working with Simulation a little more at a time, and find that it loads and runs faster on large toolpaths, and like that Backstep ability.  I have found that it lacks the ability to use Stock Model for stock, which I find frustrating, and I havent figured out where stop on collision is yet, or if it checks against fixture collision.

standard verify then Vericut for meh. but that is just because we are spoiled with Vericut.

If I did not have that tool I would surely dig into setting up Simulation within Mastercam.

[JAMMAN]

Verify all the time here... stupid question where is simulation?

[SKATOUTLE]

Verify all the time here... stupid question where is simulation?

You have to pull it out of the toolbar menu to run it.

[Niezingerly]

What do you power users prefer?  I've been using standard Verify 98% of the time since Simulation came out simply out of a lack of taking the time to familiarize myself with it.  Have been working with Simulation a little more at a time, and find that it loads and runs faster on large toolpaths, and like that Backstep ability.  I have found that it lacks the ability to use Stock Model for stock, which I find frustrating, and I havent figured out where stop on collision is yet, or if it checks against fixture collision.

So, it's not just me then???

 

I have been searching for the ability to load an 'in-process" STL, and Verify against it, in the "new" Verify, and can't find out how to do it.

 

Am I just missing something?

 

Not opposed to learning, just have not figured this out yet.

 

Thanks...

[absolute technologies]

possibly someone could answer a question for me regarding MasterCam's Simulator (I've search prior articles and didn't find anything):

Currently I'm on X9 and the stop condition function for both 'Stop at operation change' & 'Stop at tool change'  seem to work the same. I recall using this on X7 and it worked good  however at X8 it didn't work either. If I select stop at tool change it stops at operation change, so essentially both functions stop at operation change. Is there something that changed or that I'm missing??

 

I believe this newer simulator came out in X7??  it really didn't run any faster than the old simulator but was much cleaner and I could see its' potential. However, when X8 came out it really start blazing really fast in comparison. Possibly it wasn't until X8 that the simulator started to utilize my processor and graphics?? I tend to spend a lot of simulating offline as opposed to testing it out at the machine (very costly). These newer versions that are starting to use the processors and graphics better have save my company a bunch of loot so I'm happy. Some kind of g-code simulator would be nice but hard to justify where I'm at currently.

 

Thanks!

[Müřlıń®]

You should use machine sim....it's a jewel...

[Colin Gilchrist]

All three modules; Backplot, Verify, and Machine Simulation, all use "ModuleWorks" tools "under the hood". The Verify Interface was customized by CNC Software.

 

In the past, both Backplot and Verify were "plug-in" modules that were produced by different companies.

 

Currently, there is still a "switch" for "Old backplot" vs. "New (ModuleWorks) Backplot", but at some point, that will also "go away", and ModuleWorks Backplot will be the only option.

 

Besides "tweaking" the interface, the only major difference (that I'm aware of) between Verify and Simulation is the inclusion of the "Machine Model" and "Kinematics" being used inside Machine Simulation. With Machine Simulation, you also have the option of configuring the "Moduleworks Post Processor" options, which can make the Simulation "mimic" the behavior of the machine more closely. (You are still verifying "centerline" code, not G-code)

 

With Machine Simulation, there is also the ability to "integrate" your Mastercam Post Processor to drive the Simulation Module. What this means is that you can get your Mastercam Post to output both the NC File, and the "Simulation CL File". This means that the simulation file that is created by your post will have a direct 1:1 relationship between every move in the NC code, and every movement in the Simulation file. This gives you the ability to simulate true machine motion, without having the expense of a software like Vericut or NCSimul. However, you cannot configure the Machine Simulation to read "true G-code" directly.

[BenK]

 

Currently, there is still a "switch" for "Old backplot" vs. "New (ModuleWorks) Backplot", but at some point, that will also "go away", and ModuleWorks Backplot will be the only option.

 

In my opinion it would be a mistake if the old backplot went away. I don't want to go into a separate program just to have a quick check of my toolpath motion.   

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

I'm with Ben. If the old backplot goes away, I will be very disappointed. I have tried and tried to get used to the new backplot, but i always go back. It just makes for a much smoother workflow.

[gcode]

I'm with Ben. If the old backplot goes away, I will be very disappointed. I have tried and tried to get used to the new backplot, but i always go back. It just makes for a much smoother workflow.

yes...I like some of the new features in the new backplot, but the delay is launching is very disruptive when you are used to the

instant launch from old school backplot

[crazy^millman]

I was told that was here say and the old backplot was not leaving when I made those comments over in the official Mastercam forum.

[Newbeeee™]

Ron - weren't the words that were used was 'there are no current plans to remove it'...

[Colin Gilchrist]

Ron - weren't the words that were used was 'there are no current plans to remove it'...

 

Hmm. If that is how it was stated, then I would be highly surprised if it didn't go away at some point in the future. CNC Software is paying royalties to use the "old backplot" module, and the new module as well. I would think that at some point, they will not renew that license agreement, and will not be able to include the old backplot with the software. But, and this is always the case, if enough people complain, then they will probably continue to offer both separate modules. From a business standpoint though, it would make sense for them to try and force the adoption of the new Backplot technology.

 

The issue that brings up is the fact that the ModuleWorks products run in a separate window, and are not directly integrated into the Mastercam GUI. It will be interesting to see if they can "hook up" those features to work inside of Mastercam, the same way that "old backplot" currently works...

[Müřlıń®]

I can never get the ModuleWorks simulation verify to work very well...

 

I use old style backplot, verify, and the  machine sim....when I have one...

[Müřlıń®]

Verify all the time here... stupid question where is simulation?

you have to add the machine sim to your toolbar..

 

 

 

[crazy^millman]

Ron - weren't the words that were used was 'there are no current plans to remove it'...

 

Yes you are correct. Dohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[crazy^millman]

Hmm. If that is how it was stated, then I would be highly surprised if it didn't go away at some point in the future. CNC Software is paying royalties to use the "old backplot" module, and the new module as well. I would think that at some point, they will not renew that license agreement, and will not be able to include the old backplot with the software. But, and this is always the case, if enough people complain, then they will probably continue to offer both separate modules. From a business standpoint though, it would make sense for them to try and force the adoption of the new Backplot technology.

 

The issue that brings up is the fact that the ModuleWorks products run in a separate window, and are not directly integrated into the Mastercam GUI. It will be interesting to see if they can "hook up" those features to work inside of Mastercam, the same way that "old backplot" currently works...

 

That is the biggest reason it is not good for backplot. For Verify is what I have wanted since I stated using Mastercam and glad to have it. Having to use Vericut for one customer I almost never verify anything right now and just go right to Vericut so it fits with my mind set. Make the toolpath check the motion in back plot turning on and off levels as needed. Then go to a separate window to Verify. The new backplot does not have that kind of control. I hate finding all the new bugs with the old backplot in each release as it seems it is getting less and less attention with each release, but if classic backplot goes and the must have functionality has not been added to it I see a 40% to maybe 70% drop of customers. Maybe me just being crazy, but I seen a decision lately that disturbed me enough I got on the phone and emailed a lot of the dealers and they all agreed it was a bad decision. Soon after that decision was reversed. Not saying I had a part in that happening, but I use this tool to make a living and need it to function in a way to make that happen. Until the full functionality can integrated and the process with the new backplot can be exactly to the same level and quality of the old one our group cannot support the switch and will keep instructing our customer base to stay with the old style backplot. Not that is carries any weight, but what little it does it will.

[AMCNitro]

WOW!! Learn something new everyday....

[Jim at Gentex]

I just tried both Mastercam verify (the one in the ops manager) and the machine sim verify (the one on the toolbar).

 

As with X8, I have no dynamic rotate function in the Mastercam verify, but I do have it in the machine sim one. (Click and hold left mouse button.) 

Is this just a mouse setting?

This has always bugged me! 

[crazy^millman]

I just tried both Mastercam verify (the one in the ops manager) and the machine sim verify (the one on the toolbar).

 

As with X8, I have no dynamic rotate function in the Mastercam verify, but I do have it in the machine sim one. (Click and hold left mouse button.) 

Is this just a mouse setting?

This has always bugged me! 

 

Disabled the center scroll button on my mouse to force me to use my 3D mouse more. Best decision I ever made and 3D Mouse works perfect in everything.

[sharles]

Hey guys...I'm sorry I'm late to the party...but I'm trying to catch up in X9 now that I've finally made the switch. I asked a question in a different thread about the crappy quality of what I thought was 'verify' but after reading this thread, I'm starting to think it was 'mastercam simulator'. When I click on the 'verify' button in the ops manager "mastercam simulator' pops up. Maybe I don't understand, but is the old verify still available because the graphics quality of the 'mastercam simulator' is HORRIBLE for me and the old verify in X6 was great for me. I could run it on top quality and see EVERYTHING even on my big parts whereas in the new mastercam simulator if I get up close to see details the entire screen turns into a VERY MUDDY impressionistic mess...

 

edit....hmmm... reading Jim's comment I found the 'verify' icon in the toolbar...but what do I do to make it 'work'? It does nothing when I click on it? Do I need to activate it???? Typed 'verify selection' into the help and it didn't come up...

 

Scott