Mirror Planes?

[crazy^millman]

Okay so I have about 30 3+2 operations I want to mirror. I have mirrored all the geometry, but these operations are all 3+2 and they need their planes mirrored. The best way I have figured out is to take the Solid Gnomon I created years ago and Xform Translate 3D from the top where it started to the Plane the seed Plane is. I then mirror the Gnomon. Then create a copy of the plane I want to mirror and then use the rotate dynamic. I then grab the Z top arrow and move the plane to match that. I then move the X the same way to align the X. Will never get all 3 to line up, but 2 is the mirror. Now I copy the operations that I want to mirror and repick the plane for C and T. I then repick the geometry and the containment boundary. The last part of the process copying the operations is easy. The work in all of this is mirroring the planes. I want to think I could do this an easier way before Rotate Dynamic came into play with the planes manager using the old school Rotate planes and then sort out the copies, but been too long to say I am confident in that method. This method is working and yes I am aware of Xform mirror, but have chosen not to go that route so please keep the conversation limited to ways to mirror a plane.

 

Thanks for any suggestion or comments.

[jlw™]

I'd like to see a solution to this too.

 

I'd also lik to be able to rotate/copy planes as if geo.

 

Recently I had a part, a big one, with about 300 ops I had to rotate because some one set up fixtures 180 out. I had to reprogram. I know I know, fix the set up but not that easy one a 20,000lb workpiece and about a shift worth of work in setting up fixtures. Clicking easier and faster. Would have been simple if planes rotated with or like geo.

[Clarence L Cook]

jlw

 

You can rotate the wcs in the plane manager.  Right click on the wcs you would like to rotate, select rotate dynamic and the gnomon will appear and you can do what you need to do.

 

I have been able to copy a wcs, but currently I get some weird behavior in X9 because when I change the offset, it will change where I copied from also.  I just create a new one with and the problem is not there.

 

Ron,

 

I don't know how to mirror a plane, but could the rotate dynamic work as above?

 

Clarence

[crazy^millman]

jlw

 

You can rotate the wcs in the plane manager.  Right click on the wcs you would like to rotate, select rotate dynamic and the gnomon will appear and you can do what you need to do.

 

I have been able to copy a wcs, but currently I get some weird behavior in X9 because when I change the offset, it will change where I copied from also.  I just create a new one with and the problem is not there.

 

Ron,

 

I don't know how to mirror a plane, but could the rotate dynamic work as above?

 

Clarence

 

Yes I have seen the same thing, but not all the time with copied planes. I cannot put a rhyme or reason to it, but have seen it.

 

I am at A31.608 and C-143.741 and need the Mirror of that. If we got angles along with the XYZ of coordinates in the plane manager then yes I think I could, but I need the mirror of that plane to have the head be mirrored at a completely different angle not in relation to a common direction. What I mean is the mirror was not normal to X+/X- or Y+/Y- it was a mirror at a 225 degree angle. With Dynamic planes you done know your start angle and no way to know the angle unless you post code for the operation. If you need to go through that much trouble I will just keep going about the way I have developed with Dynamic Planes which is a lot easier than the old rotate the plane to get a copy and then figure out you got where you wanted to then delete all the extra ones you didn't want to get it.

 

Oh yeah you can see how I comment my operations. :scooter:

 

Here are some of the angles to give you an idea what I ran into. This section of code was over 1.1 million lines of code just to bring this section of the part within .025 of finish. Not your average widget.

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #3
;T15    - 1/2 BALL ENDMILL     - D1     - DIA .5"    - CORNER RAD .25
N15 T15
N16 L6
N17 SUPA G0 Z=0.000 D0
N18 SUPA G0 A=0.000 C=0.000
N19 TRAORI
N20 M07
N21 G0 G54 G90 A20. C-90. D1
N22 X-12.2974 Y-30.5296 S24000 M3
N23 Z-.2192


;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #5
N160459 G0 A31.608 C-143.741
N160460 G0 X-4.6144 Y-44.9986 Z.6891
N160461 X-3.9613 Y-45.889 Z-1.105
N160462 G1 X-3.9536 Y-45.8995 Z-1.1263 F100.
N160463 X-3.9506 Y-45.9052 Z-1.1377

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #7
N307271 G0 A29.279 C131.45
N307272 G0 X-11.2598 Y-44.0552 Z.4472
N307273 X-12.0034 Y-44.712 Z-1.3222
N307274 G1 X-12.0126 Y-44.7201 Z-1.3441 F100.
N307275 X-12.0182 Y-44.7236 Z-1.3553

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #9
N439045 G0 A25. C90.
N439046 G0 X-1.7859 Y-30.7588 Z-.2706
N439047 X-2.16 Z-1.0729
N439048 G1 X-2.1706 Z-1.0955 F100.
N439049 X-2.175 Y-30.759 Z-1.1078

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #11
N585480 G0 A20. C0.
N585481 G1 X-30.9565 Y-4.4165 Z-.0112 F100.
N585482 Y-3.9996 Z-1.1567
N585483 G1 Y-3.9911 Z-1.1802 F100.
N585484 X-30.9566 Y-3.9877 Z-1.1928

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #13
N736275 G0 A31.608 C53.741
N736276 X-43.0863 Y-13.8827 Z1.0635
N736277 X-44.1384 Y-13.111 Z-1.0567
N736278 G1 X-44.149 Y-13.1032 Z-1.078 F100.
N736279 X-44.1555 Y-13.0991 Z-1.0885

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #15
N882475 G0 A29.279 C138.55
N882476 X-45.2884 Y-1.7295 Z.3392
N882477 X-45.9458 Y-2.4739 Z-1.4321
N882478 G1 X-45.9539 Y-2.4831 Z-1.4539 F100.

;SEMI FINISH SIDE OF RIB #17
N1013201 G0 A25. C180.
N1013202 X-30.4575 Y-10.2889 Z-.1674
N1013203 Y-10.6662 Z-.9767
N1013204 G1 Y-10.6768 Z-.9993 F100.
N1013205 X-30.4565 Y-10.6827 Z-1.0109

[justchips]

Too funny Im doing 32 planes twice right now because I couldn't figure out how to mirror them correctly.

[justchips]

I'm creating them off of solid face and they all have to be rotated incrementally also

[crazy^millman]

Look for the 3D Gnomon topic. Use it and when you know your mirror then mirror it. Then you can use the Z and X to create the mirror of the plane. I recommend creating a level for each plane and then a copy of the level for each mirror of the gnomon. Use the new attributes when you are doing the mirror. Yes there is not keep the colors original using it, but you will get a solid gnomon that will allow you to dynamically change the copied plane to the mirrored one. Not sure what I mean I will see if I can throw a video together to show you what I am talking about.

[Clarence L Cook]

Ron,

 

Just a thought, and I really don't know if it would work, but could you change the direction of rotation in the machine definition to get a mirrored effect.  I have never done 5 axis work and typically only do 3+1 so I could be way off base.

 

Clarence

[TheePres]

Mirroring planes for 3+2 is what I dread above all else in programming!!

Working on this now.

[HT]

How about use Transform Toolpath with Method Tool plane and "Save planes" check.

[crazy^millman]

How about use Transform Toolpath with Method Tool plane and "Save planes" check.

 

That might just work thanks for the suggestion. Mirror the operation to get the planes. Delete them and then copy like I did, but now all the work of creating the planes might be done much quicker. I will give it a try if it comes up again I am past that point and report back.

 

Why I like the forum always learning and seeing things in different ways.

[JoshC]

a mirror planes button would be nice but since we don't have one yet you could do this simple trick. set your plane to one you want to mirror. Create a line over the x axis (any length) and same for the Y axis (use different line colors if you don't want to get confused on which is x and which is y) then just mirror the two lines over the plane you wish to mirror over and create a new plane off those new mirrored lines since "planes by geometry" lets you select an x and y axis line.

As long as you pick x first and y second this solution will work every time .

my $0.02

[crazy^millman]

a mirror planes button would be nice but since we don't have one yet you could do this simple trick. set your plane to one you want to mirror. Create a line over the x axis (any length) and same for the Y axis (use different line colors if you don't want to get confused on which is x and which is y) then just mirror the two lines over the plane you wish to mirror over and create a new plane off those new mirrored lines since "planes by geometry" lets you select an x and y axis line.

As long as you pick x first and y second this solution will work every time .

my $0.02

 

I tried that and it was not giving me what i wanted. I needed to X and Z for the part and positions I was programming. XY are not the mirror I needed, but XZ are for the orientation I was trying to achieve. Thanks for the suggestion.

Edited November 20, 2015 by 5th Axis Consulting

[MIL-TFP-41]

I just had to do this and came up with this. Its easy as long as its a true mirror and you aren't messing with your origin.

 

On the original part, make whatever plane you want to mirror your active WCS. Create a line in Z that is 1" long from your origin. Actually it can be anywhere on your part or in space...

Go back to your Top WCS, highlight that line, and copy it (ctrl C)

 

Go to your mirrored part, paste the line you created in (Ctrl V). Make sure you are in your top WCS

Mirror just the line...

 

Go to planes, plane by normal, select the line you just copied in and mirrored

 

Done.

[justchips]

How about use Transform Toolpath with Method Tool plane and "Save planes" check.

Great idea...funny I did this but never thought to use the planes and just repick geometry! Thanks, funny I ready your post two days ago and it just clicked !!!!

[guitar]

"Yes I have seen the same thing, but not all the time with copied planes."

 

These seem to be primarily with copying the default MC planes. And, there are alot of problems with those. Instead of copying planes anymore, I just activate the planes I want copied, then start a new dynamic plane creation and select origin. From there I can just activate the new WCS or rotate as I desire. No more problems

[crazy^millman]

"Yes I have seen the same thing, but not all the time with copied planes."

 

These seem to be primarily with copying the default MC planes. And, there are alot of problems with those. Instead of copying planes anymore, I just activate the planes I want copied, then start a new dynamic plane creation and select origin. From there I can just activate the new WCS or rotate as I desire. No more problems

 

I have found taking the copy and using Dynamic Planes and modifying it seems to break this connection. Straight out copy with just a different coordinate I have seen it, but with copies that have been modified with Dynamic planes I have not seen this.

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

Someone (in Germany ?) had a c-hook for 5 axis mirroring .

Contact your dealer for additional Info.

I tried it in the days of X2 or X5 .

I had very positive impressions

For those who have lot of 5 axis mirror parts can be a hugetimesaver

I do not remember name of this guy or contact info .

Inhouse knows him I bet

 

Other than that you need select new planes reverse directions    of chains and sides

For me it was not big deal cause I am stubborn like a bear .

But you need a lot of patience .

To use c- hook is much faster

 

BR

[justchips]

I got the transform mirror going with copy planes and reverse direction of cut...i now realize the power of this especially with being able to use any created plane to mirror about

[Müřlıń®]

Wouldn't a circle be the same as a plane?

 

When you are in your dynamic plane and create a circle the quadrants of the circle are built from the dynamic plane, so the gnomen will be mirrored if you mirror the circle.

 

So then make a plane off the mirrored circle and flip the gnomen around until you get it where you want it. 

 

I am unaware of a function for actually mirroring planes. 

[justchips]

I go to transform toolpath click my 34 ops that each have a different plane chose mirror about y axis...choose plane to mirror about...select option save planes and presto 34 mirrored planes about X or y of any construction plane like that...

[Müřlıń®]

I go to transform toolpath click my 34 ops that each have a different plane chose mirror about y axis...choose plane to mirror about...select option save planes and presto 34 mirrored planes about X or y of any construction plane like that...

So it actually saves planes to the manager?

 

sweet..  I don't do alot of transform toolpaths so I thought it did it internally like 5-axis drill....that is good to know...

[jlw™]

Speaking of this and 5 axis drill...

 

 

Is there a way (similar to hole axis) to create a plane on individual holes?

 

Right now, I hole axis, then dynamic plane the point at the top. Is there a way to do them all at once?

[crazy^millman]

Speaking of this and 5 axis drill...

 

 

Is there a way (similar to hole axis) to create a plane on individual holes?

 

Right now, I hole axis, then dynamic plane the point at the top. Is there a way to do them all at once?

 

You can create plane by geometry using the circle only. Trick is start with a plane like you want to rest to be. Has a bad habit of going crazy on you. No automatic way I am aware of and if doing a bunch I will use 5 Axis Drill.

[CJep]

Speaking of this and 5 axis drill...

 

 

Is there a way (similar to hole axis) to create a plane on individual holes?

 

Right now, I hole axis, then dynamic plane the point at the top. Is there a way to do them all at once?

 

There is an add-in program called ProDrill that will create rotated planes.

 

http://www.moldplus.com/prodrill.htm