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multiple setups...how do you approach?


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Just curious as to how others approach doing multiple setups.

 

Lets say, for simplicity sake, you have a 2 operation part on a vertical mill, both setups share some tools.

 

Currently what I do is make a machine group for OP1, and then another machine group for OP2. If you are making one part, then you are done. Lets say you are making 200 parts...

I then make another machine group, lets call it ALL OPS. Then comes the tedious task of dragging operations from op1 & op2 to this machine group, keeping tools in sequence, ect.

 

This works OK, till you make need to make a change....then you must remember to make the change in the original operation and in the copied operation. Not terrible on a simple part, but can get cumbersome in a hurry.

 

Is there any way to tie 2 operations together so when you make a change to one it updates the other? I suppose one could use transform for all the operations in the "ALL OPS" group, and not really transform the path, tho that could potentially open a new can of worms...

 

How do some of you do work with this?

 

 

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This is an interesting topic that reminds me of something. On Mazak lathes they had(or might still have) an operation layout page which allowed you to rearrange the order in which operations were processed. This would be a great idea to add to Mastercam. I, personally, do each op independently because we typically have small production runs. Tool indexing time is generally pretty short and not a burden for what we do. 

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I use 1 machine group per part. Different setups are broken up into tool groups.

I've done it this way too. Problem is I already use alot of toolpath groups. I suppose one could use subgroups for op1 & 2 & all ops...still the problem remains if you make a change to an operation you gotta do it twice.

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..still the problem remains if you make a change to an operation you gotta do it twice.

Not unless you copy the geometry and put it on it's own level (and of course re-select that geometry), then you can use that new machine group and alter just that one.

 

Every operation do is in it's own separate machine group,so if Part A has 7 ops, then I have 7 machine groups, this keeps my tool numbers in order and I'm anal about that. They are always 1,2,3,4,etc...

 

For example Op1 could be rolling the ends of a block, drilling, tapping holes

Op2 could be deburring the backside of those holes

Op3 could be end work

etc.

 

 

Being a job shop, the biggest p.i.t.a. I run into is repeat jobs where the last time we ran it in a single vise, and now the boss wants to use more than 1 vise so I then have to basically copy and redo the machine groups to account for that.

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Not unless you copy the geometry and put it on it's own level (and of course re-select that geometry), then you can use that new machine group and alter just that one.

 

Every operation do is in it's own separate machine group,so if Part A has 7 ops, then I have 7 machine groups, this keeps my tool numbers in order and I'm anal about that. They are always 1,2,3,4,etc...

 

For example Op1 could be rolling the ends of a block, drilling, tapping holes

Op2 could be deburring the backside of those holes

Op3 could be end work

etc.

 

 

Being a job shop, the biggest p.i.t.a. I run into is repeat jobs where the last time we ran it in a single vise, and now the boss wants to use more than 1 vise so I then have to basically copy and redo the machine groups to account for that.

And he then he asks you what are you doing?  I thought this was already programmed!...sigh... Been there, done that.

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And he then he asks you what are you doing?  I thought this was already programmed!...sigh... Been there, done that.

LOL exaclty.  They don't realize the work it takes to alter a job with 10+ toolpaths from a single vise to multiple vises. Sometimes it can go smoothly, other times you're going crazy with issues. Especially if you have a 4th axis with transform/rotate and such.

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LOL exaclty.  They don't realize the work it takes to alter a job with 10+ toolpaths from a single vise to multiple vises. Sometimes it can go smoothly, other times you're going crazy with issues. Especially if you have a 4th axis with transform/rotate and such.

I had to do that once.  But I had to grab someone elses program, optimize it(new endmills spade drills etc...) and then go from 1 vise to 4 double vises.  I got lucky with that one because they way it was done before he was loosing money.  I took me 1 1/2 to get going, but he was real happy after that.  And then I spent another day running but making things faster.

 

On another job(same boss) however, he thought I was taking too long. ...sigh...  

 

I sorry for highjacking the thread....

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And he then he asks you what are you doing?  I thought this was already programmed!...sigh... Been there, done that.

Oh man you aren't kidding! Plus you were programming on the fly, while setting up machine to start the roughing, then back to pc to program a few more ops, all the while optimizing toolpaths as you move farther into the part.  :fun:

 

Back on topic, it depends is the best answer I got. IF each op is only 10-20 toolpaths I will just make toolpath groups and call them Op1, Op2, etc. If i have a really complex part with 100 toolpaths or so, I usually create whole new MCX files so my pc does not choke! This creates it own set of problems, so if you have the machine to do it I would leave everything in one file if possible. Creating new machine groups will let you use new tool numbers without interfering with the other ops if that is what you want to do...

I have a part I run real similar to what you describe, where I made two toolpath groups splitting the part into (basically) top and bottom, but I wanted to run two vises with one op in each vise and use same tools. What I did for that part was what you said, made them separate, then copied them to another group and re-ordered them by tool number. After I had everything straightened out I deleted the first two toolpath groups leaving just the combined group and saved this as a new file. Not sure why I even kept the original as I have never referenced it after I got the part running... Anyways, that eliminated the problem of altering two separate groups as now it is all one group. If I make a change now everyhting is right with the world and I can re-post it no issues at all.  :thumbsup:

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You're lucky if they tell you that before they start snapping tools. 

 

Indeed, which has happened to me before because I was using a 2D HSM path and it didn't like that first cut. 

I guess that saves on endmill resharpening when you just snap em off at the shank  :guitar:

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You're lucky if they tell you that before they start snapping tools.  Also the sales guy specced the stock .050" thicker than the part so you've got nothing to hold on to.

The stock being too thin drives me up the WALL!! They dont realize that now the setup has to be different, and operations have to be added, which leads to more work and it eats up whatever savings they were trying to get by getting smaller material, but hey! it looks good on the expence report! Look boss!! I saved a few bucks! Wheres my bonus? :realmad:

At my last job we had a customer that would buy his aluminum blocks from surplus stock, everytime we had a new order the stock would be different and would snap tools on the first part.  So we would waste a brand new tool(250imp 12,000rpms) plus the time to reprogram the stock and post it.  Me and another guy ended up making a program that would trim it to size BEFORE we started making parts, but of course that added time to the run...and guess who's fault it was...sigh... Not only that, it took them 4 orders to tell me that he buys the stock from surplus.... :realmad:

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So you guys have a block that need to be machined on say 4 sides in 4 different setups. you guys create machines groups for each setup and what copy the file to another level?

Please tell me this is not so. that you use the WCS on the one file and use this for each setup even with different fixtures and veiwsheets. and have 4 different toolpath groups and all the tools go with each op even it I have 4 tool # 1 but a different tool in each T#1 holder. now if I need to make more then one part in each op I use the transform. really only time I ever use a new machine group is if it is a diffrent machine like from Lathe to mill or HMC to VMC and so on.

I am reading a lot of different things here. well I think the guys started this topic should give a a sample of what he want so a few of use can give a few thoughts on how to handle this.

 

Have a good night.

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You know, compared to most of you guys I'm still an mcam noob. Having said that I also do my best to be efficient. I use the crap out of WCS. When I have multiple setups I use toolpath groups called setup 1 and so on. For multiple parts on the same setup I break up by tool in toolpath groups and then copy the path and change only the offset on the planes page. That way there all together and run back to back and if I have to make changes its quick, delete all but on, change it, copy and paste and change offset on planes page.

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So you guys have a block that need to be machined on say 4 sides in 4 different setups. you guys create machines groups for each setup and what copy the file to another level?

Please tell me this is not so. that you use the WCS on the one file and use this for each setup even with different fixtures and veiwsheets. and have 4 different toolpath groups and all the tools go with each op even it I have 4 tool # 1 but a different tool in each T#1 holder. now if I need to make more then one part in each op I use the transform. really only time I ever use a new machine group is if it is a diffrent machine like from Lathe to mill or HMC to VMC and so on.

 

I am reading a lot of different things here. well I think the guys started this topic should give a a sample of what he want so a few of use can give a few thoughts on how to handle this.

 

Have a good night.

I use WCS and different work offsets as needed. I can't post a file because of security where I work, but here is a screenshot of my plane manager for an example. You are right, the OP should post a file and let some people look at it...

post-51233-0-35965600-1454068004_thumb.png

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Just curious as to how others approach doing multiple setups.

 

Lets say, for simplicity sake, you have a 2 operation part on a vertical mill, both setups share some tools.

 

Currently what I do is make a machine group for OP1, and then another machine group for OP2. If you are making one part, then you are done. Lets say you are making 200 parts...

I then make another machine group, lets call it ALL OPS. Then comes the tedious task of dragging operations from op1 & op2 to this machine group, keeping tools in sequence, ect.

 

This works OK, till you make need to make a change....then you must remember to make the change in the original operation and in the copied operation. Not terrible on a simple part, but can get cumbersome in a hurry.

 

Is there any way to tie 2 operations together so when you make a change to one it updates the other? I suppose one could use transform for all the operations in the "ALL OPS" group, and not really transform the path, tho that could potentially open a new can of worms...

 

How do some of you do work with this?

For a more concise answer...

 

Program everything in 1 machine group, use the WCS to get your other side/sides.......

 

You can with a simple change of NC name and program # output them as to different programs or output as 1 program with 2 different vise(G54 & G55)

 

Then if you have to make any change it only has to be made once....

 

You have to be smarter about how you process your part but it works.....

 

Think about it like a progressive tombstone...B0(OP1), B90(OP2), B180(OP3), B270(OP4)

 

You have to make sure you order your operations properly but it is all ops in 1 program. 

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So you guys have a block that need to be machined on say 4 sides in 4 different setups. you guys create machines groups for each setup and what copy the file to another level?

Please tell me this is not so. that you use the WCS on the one file and use this for each setup even with different fixtures and veiwsheets. and have 4 different toolpath groups and all the tools go with each op even it I have 4 tool # 1 but a different tool in each T#1 holder. now if I need to make more then one part in each op I use the transform. really only time I ever use a new machine group is if it is a diffrent machine like from Lathe to mill or HMC to VMC and so on.

 

I am reading a lot of different things here. well I think the guys started this topic should give a a sample of what he want so a few of use can give a few thoughts on how to handle this.

 

Have a good night.

 

 

You know, compared to most of you guys I'm still an mcam noob. Having said that I also do my best to be efficient. I use the crap out of WCS. When I have multiple setups I use toolpath groups called setup 1 and so on. For multiple parts on the same setup I break up by tool in toolpath groups and then copy the path and change only the offset on the planes page. That way there all together and run back to back and if I have to make changes its quick, delete all but on, change it, copy and paste and change offset on planes page.

 

 

I do one machine group, then add operation groups to the machine group, I also like to keep all the same tools from for each operation, it keeps me from having multiple tools of the same kind.  I usually use one WCS per operation, although sometimes it doesnt work that way .  Like Mr. Krammer, the only time I used different machine groups is when changing between machine types(lathe and mill for me).  I've been using MC since V4 yes, V4, but I never really had any contact with experienced people until about 2 1/2 years ago, Im self taught.  When someone told me about WCS, it took a few weeks for me to really grasp how it works(Im slow LOL), but once I got it I was off!  Now I think WCS is the greatest invention there is.  Keep in mind that I only do 3 and 4 axis work, no 5 axis machine here(its my dream to program one before this profession makes me go cocoo for cocoa puffs)

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So you guys have a block that need to be machined on say 4 sides in 4 different setups. you guys create machines groups for each setup and what copy the file to another level?

Please tell me this is not so.

That's how I've always done it. Force of habit and also it helps me stay organized. Plus the fact that I'm basically self taught since V9 and I don't know what options I have or how other people do things.

Here is a sample of a gravy job and how I have it set up:

 

p.s. Don't laugh   :guitar: XXXX.MCX-5

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