Integrex i100S programming & simulation

[Jaanus]

Hi,

 

we ordered mill-turn Mazak Integrex i100S for machining medical parts, it is intended for 3D milling work mostly. It will be our first mill-turn machine (and also first turning machine), all other machines in company are vertical machines, mostly 4 axis Haas and Okumas + one HAAS V3 with 2 axis rotary table, but we only use 5 axis for indexing work, have no experience in full 5 axis machining. We use MasterCam for programming, but we do not have any high end verification software like Vericut (well, we have Okuma's Admac which can be used to verify G-code).

 

So, my concern is, what kind of software should we get for programming and program simulation for Integrex ? For programming it will be MasterCam, but I have been suggested to buy additionally Vericut or NCSimul for program verification.  

As we do not have NCSimul representative nearby and NCSimul main office has not been answering even to my quotation e-mails, there is only Vericut left (they have been quite supportive).

 

But, as I was told by local MasterCam reseller, we could also by Mill-Turn add ons for MasterCam with full machine simulation + integrated post processor for Integrex. So now I am struggling with questions:

 

1)Should we just buy MasterCam's Lathe option + postprocessor for Integrex (local representative suggests Cimco as post builder in this case) for programming and also Vericut for G-code simulation ? Vericut has some nice options, too, like Optipath, which could be beneficial.

2) Or should we buy complete MasterCam's Mill-Turn package and rely on this for simulation, too? Is it capable of simulating plain G-code ? I make program modifications quite often so that I just paste the changed part into G-code with help of simple text editor, so G-code simulation possibility is a must. Maybe adding Mazak's own PC based simulation software (ie SmoothX control for PC) for final G-code simulation is worth considering, too ?  I do not plan to make program verification behind machines control, all should be done in office.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Greetings,

Jaanus

 

 

 

 

 

[PKMills]

Hi Jaanus

 

Another option you may  want to look into is CAMplete. It simulates Gcode and optimizes 5axis toolpaths. I know it differs from Vericut in that it functions as a post using Mastercam's NCI file. I don't know if they have support for Integrex i100s but they do have a TurnMill product.

[Mick]

Hi,

 

we ordered mill-turn Mazak Integrex i100S for machining medical parts, it is intended for 3D milling work mostly. It will be our first mill-turn machine (and also first turning machine), all other machines in company are vertical machines, mostly 4 axis Haas and Okumas + one HAAS V3 with 2 axis rotary table, but we only use 5 axis for indexing work, have no experience in full 5 axis machining. We use MasterCam for programming, but we do not have any high end verification software like Vericut (well, we have Okuma's Admac which can be used to verify G-code).

 

So, my concern is, what kind of software should we get for programming and program simulation for Integrex ? For programming it will be MasterCam, but I have been suggested to buy additionally Vericut or NCSimul for program verification.  

As we do not have NCSimul representative nearby and NCSimul main office has not been answering even to my quotation e-mails, there is only Vericut left (they have been quite supportive).

 

But, as I was told by local MasterCam reseller, we could also by Mill-Turn add ons for MasterCam with full machine simulation + integrated post processor for Integrex. So now I am struggling with questions:

 

1)Should we just buy MasterCam's Lathe option + postprocessor for Integrex (local representative suggests Cimco as post builder in this case) for programming and also Vericut for G-code simulation ? Vericut has some nice options, too, like Optipath, which could be beneficial.

2) Or should we buy complete MasterCam's Mill-Turn package and rely on this for simulation, too? Is it capable of simulating plain G-code ? I make program modifications quite often so that I just paste the changed part into G-code with help of simple text editor, so G-code simulation possibility is a must. Maybe adding Mazak's own PC based simulation software (ie SmoothX control for PC) for final G-code simulation is worth considering, too ?  I do not plan to make program verification behind machines control, all should be done in office.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Greetings,

Jaanus

 

Mastercam Post? Postability or Inhouse Solutions. Both rock solid post processor providers.

 

Verification? Well, I'm biased, but your experience with Vericut is pretty standard. They have the best support I have ever experienced in the CAD/CAM business. I know they have very good support for Mazak machines.

 

Mastercams Mill-Turn addon doesn't simulate G-code.

[Guest]

The company I work for has the MT product for this exact machine....

 

Get a demo on it, I think you'll be very pleased with what is in a single package

[Jaanus]

Thank you all for feedback,

 

regarding CAMplete, I have never heard of it before. Regarding the place I live (Estonia) I doub't there is any dealer nearby (or maybe in Scandinavian countries, which are nearby).

 

For some reason (which is not clear to me yet) our local Mastercam distributor suggests Cimco post (as standalone post). Any big difference compared to Postabillity or Inhouse Solutions posts? Can we expect any problems by choosing Cimco?  I have not much experience with post building&modification, we use generic posts which came with MasterCam, I just have made some modifications, but these are more or less cosmetic, nothing special.

 

I admit I am a bit of an "old school" programmer. Yes, of course I use MasterCam for any bigger piece of progamming, but I am not afraid to modify, correct & improve the G-code myself during first run-in by the machining centre, part geometry changes or even write G-code directly by the pendant for some simple stuff, if it is quicker way.

Therefore I still lean towards the solution which allows me to simulate plain G-code, although it might is a good idea to evaluate Mill-Turn demo MasterCam offers.

[David Colin]

I program 1 Mazak integrex200ST(with lower turret/Fanuc640MTpro control) and 1 Mazak integrex200-IVS(Matrix control). I program main features (part transfer, machining on both spindles with any turret, multiaxis toolpaths) both with Mastercam 'lathe' without any problem but i have tweaked posts my reseller provided for several months (years?) to make them rock solid today... Mill-turn machines are complexes, moreover, because of machine options, each one is different (even if it's labeled the same). Example: as we bought our second Integrex, we forgot to ask for polar interpolation on subspindle and it couldn't be added after setup (or it needed to change all spindle...).So post needs to manage that kind of stuff.

With Mastercam lathe, I only miss simultaneous turning and live B-axis turning but i don't really need these features in my shop.

I recently watched a Mastercam MT demo and machine simulation/post looked good but i couldn't deeply look into. It is seductive but i would be really frustrated to not be able to make any modification to posts (as they are binned) and i know i would need it one day.

We are in the process to get Vericut and with that tool i surely would still go for it (lathe only post). If you have money, and trust CNC Software (my reseller told me he couldn't) to tweak your post if needed, you can go for mill-turn + Vericut

[dan.w]

Sorry for jumping in but I have a couple of questions related to the topic:

 

• Will the vericut / mastercam pluggin work with the Mastercam mill/turn product?
• If the pluggin works - can vericut read the lathe tool definitions, or do these need to be built in Vericut?

 

Thanks

[David Colin]

Vericut interface is creating its own tool library inside from Mastercam one. That works for mill and lathe tools and i suppose it should work the same with MT (i didn't see it)

[Watcher]

My two cents:

 

Go with the In-House or Postability posts. I´m a CIMCO customer for other products and can´t express how happy and satisfied I´m with their customer service and quality.

 

However, In-House / Postability has a even broader base of customers with these machines. They also have partnerships with Mazak that allow them to make turn-key posts that are really good. I´m sure you won´t get a bad product from CIMCO, but if it was my dollar I´d go with Postability, or In-House. Being, postability #1 in my list.

 

If you decide to go with the MT add-on, make sure it can work with VERICUT or NC-Simul interfaces. Just because is Mastercam doesn´t mean that the MT add-on uses the same interface.

 

I personally would not like to be tied to a 100% binned post-processor or to a supplier that is not VERY responsive in tweaking my posts. If this is your first Integrex machine, there´s a learning curve ahead and adaptation to your shop needs. If you get a post that is difficult to tweak or that after a month or so every little change needs to be paid, you will end up cursing someone - In this case yourself.

 

To the best of my knowledge, last time I checked with a person in this forum that participated of the development of the MT add-on, it does not support live B axis turning either. Not sure if it does now. Please check it because it´s a nice solution for a mill-turn and medical parts.

 

Your first impressions about a software vendor are usually the right ones. If you´re being ignored now, it´s likely that you will be ignored later. 

 

Trust your gut and back your decision up with technical knowledge. This board can be a great source of opinions.

[Jaanus]

Thank you again for feedback,

 

yes, the problem is that is is our first Integrex (and first mill-turn type of machine anyway), so I do not know what kind of problems might arise. We chose all control options for full five axis machining, so I hope we didn't miss anything critical, but anyway, it's a a new territory for me.

 

As for MasterCam Mill-Turn option, I am glad to hear David's experience that all major programming can be done by Lathe - Mill options & good post. As our machine comes without lower turret, there will be no need for simultaneous work on both turning spindles and synchronization stuff. And, personally I also do not like the idea of not being able to modify the post nor no G-code simulation possibility. In this sense MasterCam lathe + Vericut seems to be OK. I am not sure it is worth to spend money on both MasterCam MIll-Turn and Vericut.

 

As for Cimco post, I will definitely ask the dealer why they suggest Cimco post, although I think it is because the company representing MasterCam in our area sells Cimco products, too. Maybe it is easier for them to communicate with Cimco.

 

Well, it will definitely be an interesting autumn this year with the new machine arriving. 

[jlw™]

What ever you go with, invest in training. Don't expect to be able to wing it on a machine like this unless you expect to learn a lot of hard lessons.