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mazak virtual machine simulation


GIZMO 21
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good morning fine gentlemen,,

 

I need your help people. we are looking into adding a 5 axis machine into our shop. I understand what we need for this machine.

including true g code machine simulation. we are looking into a Mazak i500 with the smooth control and the matsuura mx-520. if we go with mazak

were gonna look into adding vericut. we're going  to meet with a matsuura sales rep in a couple of days.

the support in this area from Mazak is very limited, so we already know what were getting into with Mazak. as far as I know the support

from yamazen for the matsuura is better than mazaks. i'm pushing for matsuura, but at the end of the day the boss will make

the final decision. another plus for the matsuura is that it has camplete truepath package.

I read a lot of info here on the forum of matsuura users saying that camplete comes standard, but it almost sounds like it's an added option now. 

we will find out Friday. the boss told the Mazak guy about the  matsuura camplete package, and the guy told the boss that Mazak has software for that too. 

as far as I know, I don't think Mazak offers that unless its something else that i'm not aware of, but  I wanted to ask if anyone knows if Mazak offers any

kinf of g code simulation for the their smooth control that I haven't heard of.

 

thanks for any feedback guys.

 

jesse

 

 

 

 

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don't know of any offline Mazak simulation, but they had collision avoidance on an Integrex i was looking at back in 2008. So the should have that now.

 

 Make sure you get machiine models as part of the deliverable on the PO.

Getting it after the fact$$$$$$

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There is a product from Mazak  the we use at our company called Matrix Cam.  It allows you to write programs in Mazatrol and simulate programs (Mazatrol or .EIA) on a PC using the same graphics and simulation that you have at the machine.  It is ok for verifying simple stuff but for a complicated 5axis project it is so slow that it is not really usable.

 

When we got our first 5axis machine, a Hermle C40 back in 2006 it came with a seat of Camplete.  It was nice that a post was intergrated into it that is easy to edit and set up .  Even someone with no 5axis experience (me at the time) was up and running rather quickly.   But it does not simulate G-code, you export your NCI file to it, piece your program together, set up your simulation and post out your G-code.  This is a huge hassle for not really new programs but for editing and updating old ones because you can not verify what you cut and pasted into the code or verify what came back from the machines.

 

We stared using Vericut about 5 years ago and never looked back. With the Mastercam interface (which is a add-on) simulating programs are much faster than Camplete. The down side to Vericut of course that it costs a lot more, you need post, and will probably need to get some training from you Vericut reseller. 

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Mazak does have the 3d solid based machine simulation. I'm not sure if it's standard or an option. We have it on 2 5 axis machines, a 6 axis machine and a MY lathe.

 

To be absolutely honest it's a bit weak and painfully slow. Any 5 axis path is literally going to run faster in real life than in the machine and no one at Mazak can tell you how to use it. The solids have to be SUPER simple or they will not load.

 

Having said all that, I do like a Mazak. Mazatrol is the easiest control I have ever ran. I've had my hands on a lot of controls.

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What kinds of parts are you planning to run on them?

 

we are  small quantities job shop (1-10 pcs) focus on small 6" x 6" x 6" size parts. aerospace, satellite, motorsport, and tooling. we work with many types of materials from aluminum to Inconel. 

most of our work is done 3+2, and surfacing, but a lot of our parts would benefit from 5 axis motion. all our machinist are assign to one machine. we start a project from programming 

all the way to washing your own parts. I will be in charge of the new machine, so I just want to make sure I get everything that I might need to venture into 5axis simultaneous machining.

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okuma with 200 or 300 control has pretty sweet Collision Avoidance Software. Don't even need to look in the machine window; live simulation will pretty much show what the machine is doing at any moment. I believe it also has some look ahead for upcoming collisions, but Yodoug or gcode would know more.

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okuma with 200 or 300 control has pretty sweet Collision Avoidance Software. Don't even need to look in the machine window; live simulation will pretty much show what the machine is doing at any moment. I believe it also has some look ahead for upcoming collisions, but Yodoug or gcode would know more.

 

Okuma Collision Avoidance is good, but it is a pain to set up, and it only runs with Okumas. Also, it doesn't run with TCPC, so for five axis it is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle (unless they'd updated it). We have it on our Multus B400W and our Multus U3000 2SW, but we didn't spec it on our MU500 5 axis. We had Vericut, so we didn't need the CAS.

 

I agree, whatever machine you go with, get STEP models of the machine as part of the order. I've built Vericut machines/controls for some of my customers, and most of the machine tool dealers ream you after the fact for models.

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I agree, whatever machine you go with, get STEP models of the machine as part of the order. I've built Vericut machines/controls for some of my customers, and most of the machine tool dealers ream you after the fact for models.

 

we definitely have the step model of the machine on the p.o before signing anything. 

 

thanks for the heads up.

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Mazak controls use Mitsubishi mother boards. Despite their entire software runs on Windows, some core CNC resources rely on the Mitsubishi processors.

 

Thank being said, last time I bought a Mazak machine, we had to order a PCI card from them and then install it on a PC and then install the Matrix software in a dedicated PC. Pain to setup, you are tied to one PC since you cannot run the software in a host without the card (We tried RDP) and did I say paaaaaaaainful to setup?

 

I remember we tried to return it to Mazak after a couple of months of attempts...

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Mazak controls use Mitsubishi mother boards. Despite their entire software runs on Windows, some core CNC resources rely on the Mitsubishi processors.

 

Thank being said, last time I bought a Mazak machine, we had to order a PCI card from them and then install it on a PC and then install the Matrix software in a dedicated PC. Pain to setup, you are tied to one PC since you cannot run the software in a host without the card (We tried RDP) and did I say paaaaaaaainful to setup?

 

I remember we tried to return it to Mazak after a couple of months of attempts...

 

Hot tip, If you have software licensed to a mac address, and you effectively want a "dongle", buy a USB to Ethernet adapter, and register the mac address of that adaptor to the license. It works a treat for Vericut, and I've used it for Siemens NX and TopSolid. It works legitimately, and when I showed CGTech, they actually thought it was pretty neat, and allowed "dongle usage" on mac address licensed software.

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