Large Magazines... Resident Tooling methodology

[dstryr]

Curious to see what kind of methodology people have used in dealing with large machine magazines?
All of my machines to this date have max of 60 tools and I'm buying a machine with 314 now. I want to set this up so I can use resident tooling but am concerned about building a system that I will regret in a year and then have to rebuild everything.

 

Those of you who have done this before... any advice / wisdom?
 

[jlw™]

Be sure to get all of the redundant tooling you want.  In my experience machines with magazines like this are BIG machines.  Be sure to get plenty of holders with the reach that is typically needed in a larger machine.  Especially if it's a 5 axis machine.

 

The last one I had that had 190 pockets I filled up with every tap/drill combo I could see possibly ran in the machine.  That turned out to be the single best investment in that machine, solid carbide drills on the smaller ones and Iscar Sumocham on the larger ones.  Emuge taps.  All of my inserted cutters and "regular" endmills were in there too.  Some of them had 3 of each.  We never ever had to set tools but when you did... it was a big one because you usually had to set all several of what ever needed setting.

[Bob W.]

We have built our tool libraries with this in mind.  Each cutter, holder, and cutter stick out combo is a unique tool number.  We also only have ONE tool library.  If tool 5 needs another .1" of stickout for a given project it becomes a whole new tool number.  With this method there can be a ton of overlap from project to project and the tools never need to be changed in the machine.  Tool 5 for example, in our system it is used in a few dozen different programs and there is only one in the machine.  We program around these (loaded) tools as much as possible even if it means a little less efficiency because it frees up magazine space.  We have every project tooled up in our cell (218 tool magazine) and we still have ~75 empty pots for future projects.  Given that projects are programmed around tools present in the cell each new part might require 2-3 new tools at the very most.  We mostly machine steel and aluminum however so that makes it easy.  If you machined aluminum, steel, Ti, stainless, etc... on a regular basis you would fill up pots fast.

[THEE THAINZ™]

I follow close as possible to what Bob just wrote. What I have done here is make some of my tool flex tools, in my case tool 5 is an end mill and will always be an end mill. Tool 6 is a 3/8 endmill and may change in gauge length but will always be a 3/8. Having only 21 tools in  one machine and another with 30 and 2 with 40 you have to get creative to have at least a partial dedicated list.

 

Hi Bob :waving: where ya been? (dumb question when the answer is work)

[RaiderX]

depends a lot on your type of work. 314 sounds like a lot of tools but can fill quikly.

one shop I set up had 210 and we were at 101 when I left, was able to run any part that had been programmed for it at any given time without setting up a single tool. that is an ideal situation. all aluminum and a good amount of a like family parts (500? plus part numbers).

like mentioned I will often program around the tool that is loaded even if it is not ideal.

stitching odd size fillets, longer gage length than needed etc.

thread mills are the bomb.

also if tight tolerance bores can be inturpulated versus seting up boring heads and or reamers it will save real estate.

 

can you describe your type-variation of work. might have some other idea's to share. I have set this up in many different shops and all were different based on work.

[Bob W.]

 

Hi Bob :waving: where ya been? (dumb question when the answer is work)

Yup, work work work!  Summer has been a challenge with vacations, etc..., family and employee.  I have been lurking though, just haven't had much to say.  Give me a call if you ever make it up this way.

[GoetzInd]

We handle it the same way as Bob. It's some work starting out but after a few months youll find that your setting up way less tools and programming way fast. Much safer too IMO.

 

Mike

[Guest]

Whatever you do, DO NOT set tools 1-5 to be this type of tool, 6-19 to be that. It'll end up a cluster f**k. Take the first part you intend on putting in the machine and build from there. Like Bob says, if a part needs another .1 reach, add a tool. Try to use as many tools as possible on the next job what were used in the first job. Leave space for some redundant tools. Amd for goodness sakes PLEASE use tool life management even if you do not intend on having spares.

 

JM2CFWIW YMMV

[Bob W.]

 Amd for goodness sakes PLEASE use tool life management even if you do not intend on having spares.

 

JM2CFWIW YMMV

+1000. 

[Mr. M]

What do you all use to manage the tool library for the shop? With a system where there is only one Tool #45 in the shop and it gets used on multiple machines how do you track it? Or do you have unique tool numbers for all tools but Tool #45 is resident in HMC #3 and HMC #1 has a similar tool with a different number?

      We are looking at creating some standard tools for in the magazines but right now we are leaning towards Tool #1 would be the same in all HMC's as then we do not have to update NC code or CAM files for a different tool number depending on the machine.

[Guest]

... We are looking at creating some standard tools for in the magazines but right now we are leaning towards Tool #1 would be the same in all HMC's as then we do not have to update NC code or CAM files for a different tool number depending on the machine.

 

 

 

T1 should always be the same thing in the whole shop no matter what machine (machining center-wise) as long as you can assign tool numbers to pockets.

 

IMHO of course. :

[Newbeeee™]

 

 

T1 should always be the same thing in the whole shop no matter what machine (machining center-wise) as long as you can assign tool numbers to pockets.

 

IMHO of course. :

Whenever we have problems, they're mostly self inflicted

It is usually where we may be running a quick part of say 5 tools, and we squeeze it in on the end of the machine during a running job and have to renumber the tools to say T20, T21 etc (ie end of tool carousel).

The H+D gets changed and someone misses a D value for the comp...

[Bob W.]

What do you all use to manage the tool library for the shop? With a system where there is only one Tool #45 in the shop and it gets used on multiple machines how do you track it? Or do you have unique tool numbers for all tools but Tool #45 is resident in HMC #3 and HMC #1 has a similar tool with a different number?

      We are looking at creating some standard tools for in the magazines but right now we are leaning towards Tool #1 would be the same in all HMC's as then we do not have to update NC code or CAM files for a different tool number depending on the machine.

We currently have four T603 in the shop, two in each A51 HMC.  There are a few different ways to track these and it depends on the control's tool management system.  With stand alone machines (not hooked up to the cell controller) it allowed entering multiple tools with the same tool number and it would keep track.  I should add that with these Makinos there are 60 pots that will accept tool numbers up to 9999, or 99999999 with 8 digit tool numbers.  We recently hooked up these two machines to the cell controller even though they aren't physically part of the cell.  These tools are tracked with a functional tool number (generic tool setup, T603, 3/8" end mill in Haimer shrink fit with 1.4" stick out, min gage length of 4.4") and an individual tool number (T06030001, 0001 specifies a specific instance of this generic (functional) tool, gage length is 4.4351, etc...).  The second instance of T603 would be T06030002, then T06030003, etc...  The cell controller keeps track of these tools when in the machine and also once removed.  When a tool is removed from the machine it goes into the tool crib along with all of its data so putting it back in the machine means physicalls load the tool in the magazine and tell the control it is back in.  Tool data, life, wear info all goes back in with it.

 

I should add that when a tool goes into the tool crib it physically goes into the tool crib tagged with its ITN.  It also goes into the tool crib in the cell control so at a glance a programmer can look at what tools are available in the crib assuming everyone has been doing their job correctly.  I am only pointing all this out to illustrate what tool management capabilities some machine controls have.  They can be a huge asset in tracking tooling.

[Guest]

Whenever we have problems, they're mostly self inflicted

It is usually where we may be running a quick part of say 5 tools, and we squeeze it in on the end of the machine during a running job and have to renumber the tools to say T20, T21 etc (ie end of tool carousel).

The H+D gets changed and someone misses a D value for the comp...

Create and use a MACRO variable. Problem fixed. Easy peasy

[Mr. M]

For the H and D changes my code is set to output as HA/DA which tells the machingredients to use the number of the tool in the spindle. (On our Okumas)

[GoetzInd]

 

 

as long as you can assign tool numbers to pockets.

This is why we will most likely won't buy any new machines that cannot do this.

 

Mike

[Newbeeee™]

Create and use a MACRO variable. Problem fixed. Easy peasy

I appreciate this and know it can be done - but the word MACRO at work throws fear and aggression due to a very small comfort factor...

[Guest]

I appreciate this and know it can be done - but the word MACRO at work throws fear and aggression due to a very small comfort factor...

That's a real shame. So much power. Well, if you use tool life management then you effectively do the same thing. Hnnn and Dnnn (set by parameter for the real number to use) by default it is H99 and D99, but I always set to H999 and D999 so it's out of the way.

[Bob W.]

This is why we will most likely won't buy any new machines that cannot do this.

 

Mike

+1000.  How a machine handles tools is right at the top of my list of requirements.  It makes a huge difference on how efficiently a shop can run.  If a machine couldn't assign tool numbers to pots it would probably be a deal breaker for me.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

You all and your high capacity extended magazines.  Ten tools should be enough for anyone!

[Guest]

You all and your high falutin work stations.  2 megabytes should be enough for anyone!

 

Bill Gates fiss.

 

[dstryr]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. Going to take it all in and come back with some questions....

 

Makes me wish I could get a Siemens control in this type of machine (and budget.... and no a cublex isnt in the budget). I have 3 Siemens controls in the shop and really prefer them to Fanuc but alas.... Fanuc is what I'm buying.

 

Something about using tool names is more elegant than random 8 digit numbers.... atleast in my opinion.

 

Highest tool magazine in my 14 machine shop is 60 so I'm paranoid as all hell about messing this up and getting to redo my system in 6-12 months.

[Sticky]

So you are buying the Yasda?

[dstryr]

So you are buying the Yasda?

What gave it away?

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Bill Gates fiss.

 

 

That would be 640K.

 

But actually there's no evidence he said it:

 

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2534312/operating-systems/the--640k--quote-won-t-go-away----but-did-gates-really-say-it-.html