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high speed machining


greenxman
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I got a question about the video's (on YouTube) and articals of going 800ipm.

 

is anyone here running every day at these speeds?

 

the other thing is what kind of shape  will the machine be  in a year or two of running day in and out like that.

 

what machine can take that every day? i have done about 250ipm once in a while but i think something is going to brake.

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I've programmed a Matsuura at 1,850 IPM. There are many, many machines that have Max Feedrates above 2,000 Inches per Minute. (Matsuura VMAX 800, has 2,362 IPM Max Feed)

 

The machines that have this capability are not cheap. But think about it from the perspective of making money. Wouldn't it make sense to spend 5X the money on the cost of a new machine, when you can get 10X the productivity? That's just about literally the case here, given how you say that you've barely broken 250 IPM, and there are machines that can get close to 10X that speed.

 

One thing I constantly preach is that you should be selling your machines when the "value" in them is used up. If you've got a machine that maxes out at 250 IPM, and the shop down the street can cut the same part at 2,000 IPM, which company iso going to make more money?

 

A machine from the 80's or 90's can be a boat anchor around your neck, if you want to be competitive in today's market. There are so many owners that don't understand this rationale.

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I'm running a Haas VF-3SS with a max feed of 833 IPM.  I'm not cutting that fast since I'm cutting titanium and 17-4, but I'm using 833 for the back feedrate in HFM paths.  The machine seems pretty happy after doing this for a bit over a year so far.

 

I was running a VF-4SS, cutting Aluminum, at 650 IPM, back in 2009 or 2010, when I was helping to test some of the new High Speed Toolpaths at the local Mastercam Reseller in Washington State. It cut really well, and that was with a .750 diameter endmill, 20% step over, and 2.25 DOC. It cut like butter. I think we might have peaked at 25% spindle load...

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We mill in the range of 10000m/min (400ipm) almost every day, high FEED machining mostly Cromoly and Toolox steel. It takes a rigid machine (Okuma mill here); high SPEED machining would be more suitable for a less rigid one. Nothing major broken so far, apart from a bunch of indexable cutters due to the lack of tool life control (it is coming soon...!)

 

It is very noisy, though.

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Providing your servos are tuned well (acc/dec) I see no issues with it.

The problem comes when they're not, and the machine guards 'boom' at axis reversals.

All this is doing is knocking out your thrust bearings/ballscrews.

 

As an aside, I've worked with people who run machines at 50% because 100% rapid is 'too fierce on the machine'.

But it's the same acc/dec the servos go through to get to 25% as it is 100%.

If your rapids 'boom' the machine, then the acc/dec for them need tuning.

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As an aside, I've worked with people who run machines at 50% because 100% rapid is 'too fierce on the machine'.

 

 

They need to anchor their machines properly is the most likely scenario...

 

To OP question....

 

Yes, 800 IPM is doable and done every day somewhere....always have to keep in mind that to size, type of path and a few other things will determine if you can ultimately hit that speed.

 

To the noise comment...it's a machine shop. If your shop is quiet, you're most likely losing $$$$

 

JM2C FWIW YMMV

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 800ipm.

 

is anyone here running every day at these speeds?

 

No, but I wish.

Our Genos M560V's can do 1200 or so, but the fastest I've went on a job was a little over 700IPM with a 7flute endmill in 8620.

I had a chubby the size of Lake Huron watching that thing cut at that speed!

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Well we programmed one project for a customer were we were hitting 1200 ipm at 24,000 rpms with a 2in 3 flute Iscar Heli-Alum tool. Tool was running 12K SFM. It was MRR: 180 in³ with a 1.2 wide or 60% step over and depth of cut of .125 deep.

 

Here are the specs from HSMAdvisor about it:

 

Material: Classified
Tool: 2.000in 3FL l
Speed: 12560.0 SFM/ 24000.0RPM
Feed: 0.0167 in/tooth 0.0500 in/rev 1200.00 in/min
Chip Thickness: 0.0167 in
Reference Chip load: 0.0060 in
Engagement: DOC0.12 in  WOC1.20 in
Effective Dia: 2.000 in
Cross Section: 0.04 x Dia.
Power: 90.0HP
MRR: 180.00 in³
Torque: 19.70 ft-lb
Max Torque: 505.89 ft-lb
Cutting Force: 236.4 lb
Deflection: 0.0000 in
Max Deflection: 0.00125 in

 

I cannot go into more details than that.

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so one video i saw was on a haas doing 800 in aluminum okay do able.  

 

you think the haas will stand the test of time?

 

I was apprehensive coming to work here knowing that they'd already decided on getting a Haas, but I've been pleasantly surprised with the machine's performance.  It seems they've really upped their game recently. 

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Well we programmed one project for a customer were we were hitting 1200 ipm at 24,000 rpms with a 2in 3 flute Iscar Heli-Alum tool. Tool was running 12K SFM. It was MRR: 180 in³ with a 1.2 wide or 60% step over and depth of cut of .125 deep.

 

Here are the specs from HSMAdvisor about it:

 

Material: Classified

Tool: 2.000in 3FL l

Speed: 12560.0 SFM/ 24000.0RPM

Feed: 0.0167 in/tooth 0.0500 in/rev 1200.00 in/min

Chip Thickness: 0.0167 in

Reference Chip load: 0.0060 in

Engagement: DOC0.12 in  WOC1.20 in

Effective Dia: 2.000 in

Cross Section: 0.04 x Dia.

Power: 90.0HP

MRR: 180.00 in³

Torque: 19.70 ft-lb

Max Torque: 505.89 ft-lb

Cutting Force: 236.4 lb

Deflection: 0.0000 in

Max Deflection: 0.00125 in

 

I cannot go into more details than that.

 

I feel so inferior reading things like this :unworthy: 

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Well we programmed one project for a customer were we were hitting 1200 ipm at 24,000 rpms with a 2in 3 flute Iscar Heli-Alum tool. Tool was running 12K SFM. It was MRR: 180 in³ with a 1.2 wide or 60% step over and depth of cut of .125 deep.

 

Here are the specs from HSMAdvisor about it:

 

Material: Classified

Tool: 2.000in 3FL l

Speed: 12560.0 SFM/ 24000.0RPM

Feed: 0.0167 in/tooth 0.0500 in/rev 1200.00 in/min

Chip Thickness: 0.0167 in

Reference Chip load: 0.0060 in

Engagement: DOC0.12 in  WOC1.20 in

Effective Dia: 2.000 in

Cross Section: 0.04 x Dia.

Power: 90.0HP

MRR: 180.00 in³

Torque: 19.70 ft-lb

Max Torque: 505.89 ft-lb

Cutting Force: 236.4 lb

Deflection: 0.0000 in

Max Deflection: 0.00125 in

 

I cannot go into more details than that.

Only 180MRR?   

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I was apprehensive coming to work here knowing that they'd already decided on getting a Haas, but I've been pleasantly surprised with the machine's performance.  It seems they've really upped their game recently. 

 

I'd be curious to know how they stand up over time.....6-8 years and if they hold together with minimal break downs and repairs

 

In the past at least, HAAS and longevity were 2 words I would not have used together.....

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I see a lot of videos of Haas machines programmed at 800 ipm but I doubt they actually reach that speed.  We do a lot of high speed machining but due to short stroke lengths and accel/decel it never actually gets above 100-200.  The other thing is that you won't see that on the Haas control.  Probably the one thing i don't like about Haas.  Mitsubishi control actually shows instant real time feed rates on the screen.

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I see a lot of videos of Haas machines programmed at 800 ipm but I doubt they actually reach that speed.  We do a lot of high speed machining but due to short stroke lengths and accel/decel it never actually gets above 100-200.  The other thing is that you won't see that on the Haas control.  Probably the one thing i don't like about Haas.  Mitsubishi control actually shows instant real time feed rates on the screen.

I dislike that as well, the machine will read your programmed feed rate and not what its actually running. I always spot this pretty quickly though when I look at my cycle time comparisons when my 4 minute program took 8 or something like that.

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We use Fraisa Xfeed cutters every day in our Mikrons for re-rough procedures on mold cavities. The 1/2" one runs 848IPM in P20 steel. The Mikrons are dogs though, you need at least 4 inches of straight line to actually hit 800IPM.

 

I occasionally put one in our Roeders. That is some scary chit to watch. Linear motors and a control that lets you open things up for roughing. The only way to describe it is, violent.

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Sometimes you are better programming to the actual limits of the machine for accelerate and decelerate limits than trying to programs something it will never achieve. On the example I listed above it was a 100" diameter part so the machine was able to achieve those federates a lot during the 40 hours of roughing on that part. Results are not typical for 98% of the shops, but are real. Similar part before was taking 100 hours to rough and we reduced it for the customer (whom I am not allowed by NDA to even mention their name) down to 40 hours. Neat seeing chips flying 30 to 40 feet from a machine. Even on Ti and other metals the HST toolpaths are very impressive to watch.

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We use Fraisa Xfeed cutters every day in our Mikrons for re-rough procedures on mold cavities. The 1/2" one runs 848IPM in P20 steel. The Mikrons are dogs though, you need at least 4 inches of straight line to actually hit 800IPM.

 

I occasionally put one in our Roeders. That is some scary chit to watch. Linear motors and a control that lets you open things up for roughing. The only way to describe it is, violent.

You need to work with your Mikron dealer to learn how to make it perform. The Mikron will destroy most machines in the high-speed arena in regards to speed. Your geometry will ultimately determine the maximum feed rate that can be attained, but the Heidenhain control on the Mikron is more than up to the challenge. Your filter settings and control accuracy settings play a bit part in attaining the speed you are looking for.

 

Carmen

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I dislike that as well, the machine will read your programmed feed rate and not what its actually running. I always spot this pretty quickly though when I look at my cycle time comparisons when my 4 minute program took 8 or something like that.

 

This irks me as well with Supernurbs enabled on Okuma control.

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