New Vertical Milling Macachine

[MES]

We are locking quote for a new vertical milling machine (3 axis), for 8 year we are using HAAS, but we  do not want more HAAS, We are in South Florida (Miami) this place is not manufacturing area and the service sometime is complicated. We machine Aluminum and SS 303 basically, and running short lots of production and fixtures and simple molds.

The Spec the we are locking are:

TABLE 40 x 20 x 20" Aprox

Spindle: 12 or 15K

ATC 30 Tools

Renishaw probe and tool setting.

Now We are locking: Matsura VX-100 , OKUMA GENOS 560 and MAZAK VCN-530.

I like to hear your opinion about these machine, other recommendation are OK but we are locking a good service in the area too.

Thanks in advance.

MES

 

 

[?Mark]

Actually all very nice choices. I'd go with the Matsuura personally, as they don't really make "economy" version machines like the others.

[nickbe10]

The problem with Mazak and Okuma is the proprietary code. If you already have these controls and you want to standardize , that's fine. But be aware that the vast majority of machinists out there are used to Fanuc/Haas, and the Okuma especially can be a steep learning curve for some.

I haven't run a new Okuma lately but I wasn't impressed with their newer machines when they went from the old "cast component" to "fabricated component" machines. Their 50T horizontals with fabricated spindle carriages weren't a patch on the Moris which stuck with the cast spindle carriage.

Mazaks are fine but the lightweight spindles restrict your machining techniques which can cramp you style on larger parts.

I have always liked Matsuras but some are not very ergonomic. And they run code familiar to most machinists.

IMHO you still can't beat Mori Seki as a good general purpose machine (yeah there are higher spec machines out there). They have a good balance between Speed , Rigidity and Ergonomics. So you can use HF techniques and more traditional strategies to suit your job.

We recently got a 40" travel Mori NV5100 with 4 axis and probe  and it is a lovely machine, you can drive a bus through the door and park it on the table......

 

[Guest]

The Matsuura VX is it's "economy" line.   It's a good value. 

 

Okuma and Mazak... you'll have a completely different control... which is fine if you're into that sort of thing. Personally I like compatibility so FANUC gives me the most range of availability of machine tools to choose from. 

[jeff]

I have 3 of the Okuma Genos M560-V mills and I'd put them up against any 3 axis mill in the 40x20 class. It's a Big Plus, 30Hp (not HaasPower) and Hi-Cut Pro as standard.

No experience with Mattsurra or Mazak, but I hear good things about them also.

[MES]

Thanks for the replay, Now our preference is MATSURA the control is the point, we prefer FANUC, but the OKUMA look great machine. Very important is the price and the MATSURA is really nice and warranty for 2 year and good service.

[?Mark]

27 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

The Matsuura VX is it's "economy" line.   It's a good value. 

 

Okuma and Mazak... you'll have a completely different control... which is fine if you're into that sort of thing. Personally I like compatibility so FANUC gives me the most range of availability of machine tools to choose from. 

By "economy" I meant "cheap". Like a NV vs Duracenter from Mori. NV being a solid machine and Duracenter being their "value" haas competitor

[rrichard]

Genos are very sweet machines

[Guest]

Stepping up from Haas, you're going to have to ask how rugged a machine you need....

As you're already a "Fanuc/Haas" based shop, staying in this line is likely best for comparability

If it were my choice to make, Matsuura.....been programming Mazak VMC's and HMC's solely for 2 years now.....they do the job

[GoetzInd]

Makino PS95 is a nice machine too and won't break the bank. My next choice would be the Matsuura VX, then maybe a doosan. Like many, I think if you're already used to a Fanuc based control, I would stick with that. Okuma is a nice machine too though. We have a bunch here in our prototype dept.

 

Mike

[Leon82]

20 minutes ago, GoetzInd said:

Makino PS95 is a nice machine too and won't break the bank. My next choice would be the Matsuura VX, then maybe a doosan. Like many, I think if you're already used to a Fanuc based control, I would stick with that. Okuma is a nice machine too though. We have a bunch here in our prototype dept.

 

Mike

We have a ps95 with a professional p control.

I would not recommend that control.

[Pilot Plant Supervisor]

I was at DMG Mori this week, and they were offering the CMX1100 with 30 ATC, 22 x 40 x 20, chip conveyor, tool and spindle probing, 1000psi through spindle coolant etc. for $91,900!!!

[#Rekd™]

21 minutes ago, Pilot Plant Supervisor said:

I was at DMG Mori this week, and they were offering the CMX1100 with 30 ATC, 22 x 40 x 20, chip conveyor, tool and spindle probing, 1000psi through spindle coolant etc. for $91,900!!!

This CMX line is a re-branding or their Eco line...you couldn't pay me to buy one.

 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, #Rekd™ said:

This CMX line is a re-branding or their Eco line...you couldn't pay me to buy one.

 

 

No, since DMG acquired Mori their reputation has been irreparably damaged. 

[YoDoug®]

I just want to put my .02C in on the "proprietary" control argument as I work for an Okuma Distributor and hear this all the time. We sell a lot of Genos Mills. It is our number one selling machine.

My first comment is that it is a very easy machine to learn and run. We rarely have to spend more than a day or two training to get customers up and running. A few of the G-M codes are different but it is still ISO G code. Most Fanuc programs can be edited in minutes to run in an Okuma mill.

My second comment is that almost every customer we have sold a Genos mill to has bought a second Genos mill within a year a two, regardless if it was their first Okuma or not. Our salesmen love to sell them because it is almost a recurring income from future sales. 

My third comment is that when we do win a sale with our "proprietary" control into a Fanuc shop, the feedback we get most of the time is that the operators end up preferring our control over the Fanuc. 

Lastly, a quick analogy about technology in our lives. I used to have a 1998 suburban. It was one of my favorite cars I have ever owned. Then I bought a 2008 Saturn Outlook. I now drive a 2015 Hyundai Santa Fe. Each time I bought a newer car the stereo, climate controls, etc. had a more modern interface. My current car has DVD, Navigation, Hands Free, auto climate, etc. It took a week to get comfortable with the controls when I first got it but would I go back to that suburban now, NO WAY! The same analogy can be made about cell phone, computers, home entertainment systems, etc. 

[Guest]

^^^^^^

and with all that said buy a Matsuura    

[?Mark]

[taperlength]

Do they sell Doosan there?   It's a popular brand here and I've never had any problems with it.

[mkd]

Don't really know how the latest matsuura/mori/mazak/dosan/ps95 compare head to head nor have i done a battle of checkboxes, but from what i'm aware, the Genos m560v owns the bang for the buck in the 40x20 3 axis market.

 you can get a Haas cheaper and make lots of money on it but it's not in the same class and it's not much cheaper with similar options.

[RaiderX]

my vote would be matsuura or okuma. not in any order just base it on local service??

[MES]

Finally we have quotes and the prices are very similar (the diference is only 3%)  now our decision is not for money.

We quote haas using web page and when you compare is only 10 or 15% cheaper after call saleman and some discount but you loos some features.

We have preference for matsura but okuma look great the frame is really nice for heavy and rigid cuts.

Thanks you for the answers

 

[?Mark]

Be ware of the way covers on X axis. Friendly shop has two of those. Tons of chips get there when cutting aluminium. Great machine otherwise, but I'm still partial to maatsura

[mkd]

 

It shows 15,000rpm standard with 20k available. Kinda fails to mention horsepower. I found a brochure online that lists TSC, 30 HP and lift up chip conveyor and 2" more travel on Y axis as standard. Maybe Pretty beefy for a single column design.  Certainly gives the 560 a run for the money.

auto grease spindle???

[Leon82]

2 hours ago, mkd said:

 

It shows 15,000rpm standard with 20k available. Kinda fails to mention horsepower. I found a brochure online that lists TSC, 30 HP and lift up chip conveyor and 2" more travel on Y axis as standard. Maybe Pretty beefy for a single column design.  Certainly gives the 560 a run for the money.

auto grease spindle???

Our 20000 RPM mx520 have the grease spindle the manual says you don't have to warm it up in the morning. We still do. We also have a V plus 1000 with a 20000 RPM oil spindle the factory warm up program takes 45 minutes

[mkd]

I wouldn't know what to do with a 20k spindle.

anything over 5k is a waste.