New to us Millturn- Feedback Needed

[cincy k]

We're looking to add a mill turn to our shop. I don't know that we would stretch for a new machine with some of the other financial obligations that we have. Wanted to get some feedback from users on a few specific machines. 

Mori Seiki NT-1000W

Mori Seiki NT-3150 or 3200, preferably a SZ model

Mazak Integrex iv st

Okuma Multus B300w

Anything else that would be recommended? Looking 2007 ish and newer.   

 

[mkd]

I think the mori is the only one with a true Y axis in that list, in that vintage. Maybe the compound slides are made transparent enough on the control side, but to me it's an odd thing for a builder to do.

 I know an applications guy that has a slightly used NAkamora fully loaded. Right, foghorn?

[crazy^millman]

Really going to come down to the work you are looking to do in the machine. Complex really involved parts NT 3150 all the way. Simple stuff anyone of them will work, but realize a slant Y axis is totally different than a independent full Y Axis.

[cincy k]

Mostly simple parts for now. Trying to eliminate handling parts multiple times and give us more unattended time. I would prefer a true Y axis machine for clearance reasons. 

I'm curious about the sub spindle setup on the NT-1000W. I recall reading somewhere that it was;t a very rigid setup when being used as basically a workholding device at 45 degrees for milling work. 

[crazy^millman]

I would look to the B300W or the NT-3150 if you want a more rigid sub spindle. I will sometimes start parts in the sub and then finish them in the main.

[mkd]

35 minutes ago, cincy k said:

Mostly simple parts for now. Trying to eliminate handling parts multiple times and give us more unattended time. I would prefer a true Y axis machine for clearance reasons. 

I'm curious about the sub spindle setup on the NT-1000W. I recall reading somewhere that it was;t a very rigid setup when being used as basically a workholding device at 45 degrees for milling work. 

pretty amazing little beast. innovative to be able to do all that work in such a small footprint.

 

[MIL-TFP-41]

33 minutes ago, cincy k said:

I'm curious about the sub spindle setup on the NT-1000W. I recall reading somewhere that it was;t a very rigid setup when being used as basically a workholding device at 45 degrees for milling work. 

Pretty sure that isn't an option anymore on the newer machines. I was a pretty cool concept, but the guys Ive talked to from DMG-Mori were less than impressed with the whole setup. Very few cam systems supported it.

[Mick]

34 minutes ago, MIL-TFP-41 said:

Pretty sure that isn't an option anymore on the newer machines. I was a pretty cool concept, but the guys Ive talked to from DMG-Mori were less than impressed with the whole setup. Very few cam systems supported it.

I've got access to a machine simulation model of an NTX 1000 with both the upper and lower turret. I agree, a pretty cool concept. That tilting C sub is sure different I played around programming some parts on it, and it would sure be neat to have access to a physical machine to experiment with it.

I also heard somewhere that the machines weren't so good.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

It did look in the video like they're cutting pretty tenderly on the sub.

[Brad Lisle]

The Multus B300 is a great machine but as mentioned earlier it is not a true Y-axis, it does have a compound slide. The Multus U3000 has the a true Y-axis and in my opinion a lot more robust configuration, although both machines are great.

My only real suggestion whether you go with an Okuma or not, BE VERY CAREFULL IF BUYING A USED MACHINE!!!! I cannot stress this enough. There are a lot of good deals to be had in the used market for most machines. These types of machines however are a different story. I strongly recommend and urge you to look only at new machines. There are too many components and variables in this class of machinery. I personally have seen a shop buy a used machine to turn around an invest more than the cost of a new machine trying to restore it to factory specs and still has issues. If the machine has been crashed there can be a lot more damage and alignment issues than what can be seen from a basic inspection.

My 2 cents for what its worth.

[Guest]

On 5/30/2017 at 2:21 PM, Mick said:

I've got access to a machine simulation model of an NTX 1000 with both the upper and lower turret. I agree, a pretty cool concept. That tilting C sub is sure different I played around programming some parts on it, and it would sure be neat to have access to a physical machine to experiment with it.

I also heard somewhere that the machines weren't so good.

That is a WEAK design at best. Great idea, just won't work for anything other than light machining. Crash it and Ho Lee you're into a serious service call. 

[crazy^millman]

8 hours ago, Brad Lisle said:

The Multus B300 is a great machine but as mentioned earlier it is not a true Y-axis, it does have a compound slide. The Multus U3000 has the a true Y-axis and in my opinion a lot more robust configuration, although both machines are great.

My only real suggestion whether you go with an Okuma or not, BE VERY CAREFULL IF BUYING A USED MACHINE!!!! I cannot stress this enough. There are a lot of good deals to be had in the used market for most machines. These types of machines however are a different story. I strongly recommend and urge you to look only at new machines. There are too many components and variables in this class of machinery. I personally have seen a shop buy a used machine to turn around an invest more than the cost of a new machine trying to restore it to factory specs and still has issues. If the machine has been crashed there can be a lot more damage and alignment issues than what can be seen from a basic inspection.

My 2 cents for what its worth.

Seen it, lived it and it ruined one company IMHO. Was not my decision I did everything in my power to get the owner to buy new. Machine sat for 9 months and over a $100k put into it. I figured it cost the company over $750k in lost production capabilities. It was only a HMC.

[mkd]

Some good points about the pitfalls of getting something old an unknown. I'm very personally familiar with installing an older millturn that was purchased sight unseen. It's so old people aren't familiar with the control nuances.

 Been a looooong road. I would have been a fool to do it with waiting production.