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Drilling off centerline on a 4th axis


G Zero
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I need to drill & tap some holes (8-32) in a part (304ss) and I would like to use the shops 4th to save quite a few setups. Unfortunately the 4th we have is a small Haas hrt 160 and I would be drilling about 3.5" off centerline. I am a little worried that I might end up pushing threw the brake. I know its a small drill but it feels like I am giving it a big lever. We haven used this 4th a lot but we have a batch of parts coming up that it would save me a bunch of time on, so any advice would be appreciated. 

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Can you put a M00 and support the part or fixture? Use to make an agaitator hub years ago out of 440 SS. Made 6" risers for the 4th Axis and the Tailstock. We would then put machinist jacks under the part to machine the 12" diameter counterbore in them for the paddles that turned it into a 144" dia assembly. Before each index there was 2 M00 so wthoevrr was running it myself included would make sure to remove and put back the jacks before each index. Nothing on the part then put a stud in the 4th Axis or thin about something like an eat you can use to secure something when at the position. I would helix bore not drill and threadmill to make sure I didn't put to much stress on the 4th Axis, but without seeing everything hard to really know what is best. I would try it 1st maybe doing baby pecks and see what happens. You don't overload then your good to keep moving. If it does then you do what you must to make it work. I have even taken a strap clamp and clamped the backside of a 4th Axis that was machined to match the ID of the 4th Axis. I would then tighten the strap clamp down on the backside of the 4th Axis to act like a brake. This was on old SMW back about 91 that was using a M code box to index parts the the brake was shot on it. Parts with only 4 indexes was okay but 20 or 50 indexes that got old really quick. 

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In the the shop I work for the M00 would be asking for trouble. I have one operator that has op stopped his way threw the entire program and said that my program is messed up because the facemill is going to run again (he has done this twice). I never know who is going to be running my programs so I have to shoot for Idiot proof. I like the Helix bore idea I didn't think of that. I might be alright drilling it lightly tho. I just looked up the haas spec sheet and they claim that the brake torque @ 100 psi is 100 ft/lb. I will still put some flats at my index points so if need be I can add jacks. Thanks for the reply. 

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If you run M00 with inattentive operators try multiple M00 with comment between such as

M00

(remove clamps or crash)

M00

(Don't be stupid remove the clamps)

M00

(if you forgot the clamps and crash say good bye on your way out)

 

Worked at a shop where I worked and the guy did say good bye on his way out.......

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14 hours ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

I'm all for threadmilling, especially if quantity is fairly low.  I wouldn't be too concerned about the drill though.  I might run the feed a little light if I were worried about the brake.

I will have to look on Monday but I dont think I have a threadmill that will work. The order is low qty 3 parts 2 of each but I dont think we have room in the job $$ wise to order tools. 

8 hours ago, THEE THAINZ™ said:

If you run M00 with inattentive operators try multiple M00 with comment between such as

M00

(remove clamps or crash)

M00

(Don't be stupid remove the clamps)

M00

(if you forgot the clamps and crash say good bye on your way out)

 

Worked at a shop where I worked and the guy did say good bye on his way out.......

I have tried that and I even add a few lines of (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to try to get them to pay attention and if I could enforce the last one we would be looking for a new operator every 2 to 3 weeks. Unfortunately this was embedded in the shop culture long before I got here. It is the belief of almost every one here that if a crash is going to happen there is nothing that you can do to stop it so just hit the button. I could write a rant that would be a wall of text on this alone. I have managed to get one setup / operator trained up fairly well but it is an up hill battle.

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On 8/5/2017 at 4:28 PM, G Zero said:

I have tried that and I even add a few lines of (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to try to get them to pay attention and if I could enforce the last one we would be looking for a new operator every 2 to 3 weeks. Unfortunately this was embedded in the shop culture long before I got here. It is the belief of almost every one here that if a crash is going to happen there is nothing that you can do to stop it so just hit the button. I could write a rant that would be a wall of text on this alone. I have managed to get one setup / operator trained up fairly well but it is an up hill battle.

I'd be looking for a new place to work. 

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14 minutes ago, jeff said:

I'd be looking for a new place to work. 

Or just keep replacing operators until you get the previous shop culture weeded out.

There is a name for operators in our industry who refuse to follow work instructions..."Unemployed"

Make the one guy you do have trained correctly the lead person and have him train everyone else accordingly.  When someone crashes a machine because of failure to follow work instructions after they have been trained, start a disciplinary process that includes verbal and written warnings, suspension, and ultimately termination if they still refuse to comply.

Yes, it will likely be an uphill battle.  If you could just show the ownership of the company how much time and money they are actually losing every time a lazy operator blows off his work instructions and crashes a machine, they might start to come around.  If not, as Jeff said, looking for another job yourself may be your last resort.

Good luck.  :cheers:

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On 8/5/2017 at 4:28 PM, G Zero said:

It is the belief of almost every one here that if a crash is going to happen there is nothing that you can do to stop it so just hit the button.

This made me laugh and immediately think of one instance in particular. A place I worked there was one time I walked up to a guy who had broken a tap in a hole. He told me the tap had bottomed out. He was loading in another tap and was going to run that one with no adjustment. I guess he was going to see if that one would not break when it bottomed out. :wallbash: Just mind boggling some times with the people that we are forced to work with.

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8 minutes ago, BrianP. said:

This made me laugh and immediately think of one instance in particular. A place I worked there was one time I walked up to a guy who had broken a tap in a hole. He told me the tap had bottomed out. He was loading in another tap and was going to run that one with no adjustment. I guess he was going to see if that one would not break when it bottomed out. :wallbash: Just mind boggling some times with the people that we are forced to work with.

Years ago I was paying a guy piece price to tap a bunch of parts on a drill press

3 10-32 holes in a little disc.  Set the part on a spud and eyeball the tap through the holes.

There were thousands of parts and once I got on a roll I could do 3 a minute for hours on end.

I told him to be careful because if he banged the part with the tap, the part was no good.

What I meant was "Hit the freakin' hole!!!"

I came back from lunch and there were parts all over the alley, with another one flying out the door every 30 seconds or so.

I walk in and ask the guy what's up.

He says, "You told me they were no good if I hit them with the tap", as he scrapped another one and launched it out the door. :lol:

 

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