Current best computer choices for Mastercam

[medaq]

I am at this point of constant wait times for optirest processing and or model processing. 

I know this questions gets asked a lot. Being technology is constantly changing, and I am looking to spend a lot of money on the right system. I  would rather get the correct components.  So what is the end all best of the best for current Mastercam.

I9 or xeon? Does I9 give a sginificant boost over I7?

32 gigs? does 64gigs help,, 128 gigs?

 ssd Drive of course. 

Quadro versus gtx1080 geforce? 

 

Bascially what would you build if money was no object. 

[crazy^millman]

Xeon with 10.ghz440 cores or I-55 with 5000 GHZ with 880 core. 1024 GB of Ram and a Quadro 20000 250Gb video card. Will need 0 gauge wire running right from the pole at 440v to run it with a industrial swap cooler. 

Anything else with these toolpaths is just going to take time. I am seeing the Xeon 2.67 ghz 12 core about 30 to 40% slower than my I-7 6920 Laptop. Both have 64Gb of ram. The Xeon has a K2200 2GB Video card and the I-7 has a M5000 8Gb video card. Raid 1 250gb SSD on the Xeon and 1tb flash on the I-7. 

 

Off topic, but relative to the conversation I think.

I have gotten to the point where once I make a stock model and feel the operation making it are locked in I save it to a level and then make a new stock model using the pmesh. I delete the old one and then build operations from that point then rinse and repeat. Still doing this I have stock models in 2017 that are dirty even though they don't show dirty, but since I broken the link to the operations I am not waiting for hours for regenerate time when my clean yet dirty stock models process happens. People who work in a company and don't have to share files are seeing using external stl files is better to manage file size, but I have to always send files to customers and external linked files are to risky.

[medaq]

This reminds me of when looking at cpu for Solidworks about what is better. In general less cores at high ghz was better for general work. Dual cpu multi core xeons was best for processing renderings. So is Mastercam in general looking for high Ghz less cores? Has anyone tried a I9 yet? 

[neurosis]

18 minutes ago, C^Millman said:

I have gotten to the point where once I make a stock model and feel the operation making it are locked in I save it to a level and then make a new stock model using the pmesh. I delete the old one and then build operations from that point then rinse and repeat.

 

I saw you mention this in another thread.  I've been doing it that way since and think that its a great idea.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Single core benchmarks:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Winner at $350:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117792&cm_re=7740x-_-19-117-792-_-Product

 

[medaq]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

Single core benchmarks:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

Just found that list. Looks like the best cpu will only out perform my current cpu ( i7-6700k @ 4.0 GHz) by 12%? Is this the definitive factor to really speed up Mastercams speed? Wish they would implement dual cpu support with all the intense processing they do now a days. 

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Yup.

Dual CPU just gets you more cores / threads, and with a bottleneck between them.  If you aren't maxing all cores at once on your current rig adding cores won't help significantly.  As opposed to a dual CPU system you'd be better off putting that money and effort into extreme cooling and overclocking, which can usually get you at least 10% and sometimes as much as 20%.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-i7-7740x-overclocking

 

[crazy^millman]

Here is something I threw together I would like to build and see how it performs on some of the things I am doing right now. Notice I went with the P4000 Had I got to the P6000 it would have been a lot more money. I would try to OC it to 5.0 ghz and see what it does and how long it can handle that amount of OC. If I had to replace a Processor every 6 months but got 30% to 40% reduction on Calculation times they paid for themselves the 1st month. Yes that much memory is not allowed on Windows 7 Pro, but I might run a dual boot with Win 10 and Win 7 and see how much difference it makes using 2 1TD drive keeping the OS on each one separate. I would also never put it on the internet.

DEEPCOOL GENOME II The Upgraded worldwide first unique gaming case with integrated 360mm liquid cooling system Black case with Green helix Item #: 11-853-046

Thermaltake Toughpower Grand DPS G RGB Titanium PS-TPG-1000DPCTUS-T 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS TITANIUM Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply Item #: 17-153-302

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 128GB (8 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3466 (PC4 27700) Intel X299 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3466C16Q2-128GTZR Item #: 20-232-578

ASUS Prime X299-Deluxe LGA 2066 Intel X299 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard Item #: 13-132-990

Intel Core i7-7740X Quad-Core 4.3 GHz LGA 2066 112W BX80677I77740X Desktop Processor Item #: 19-117-792

Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit Item #: 32-416-804

PNY Quadro P4000 NVIDIA Quadro P4000 8GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 Full Height Video Cards - Workstation Item #: 14-133-643

SAMSUNG 960 PRO M.2 1TB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V6P1T0BW Item #: 20-147-597

[jeff]

For multi core stuff, the AMD Ryzen and Threadripper cpu's blow the doors off of Intel i7's and i9's. And they are cheaper too.

How well do they perform in Mastercam? Nobody knows. I think CNC needs to pony up the $ and do some benchmarks between Team Red and Team Blue.

[Chris Butt from CNC Software]

1 hour ago, jeff said:

For multi core stuff, the AMD Ryzen and Threadripper cpu's blow the doors off of Intel i7's and i9's. And they are cheaper too.

How well do they perform in Mastercam? Nobody knows. I think CNC needs to pony up the $ and do some benchmarks between Team Red and Team Blue.

AMD's new CPU lineup have a good price to performance ratio and is good to see competition in this area again. As for the performance inside of Mastercam we have received a few emails regarding this and was able to ordered two Ryzen CPU's for testing (R7 1700).

I will be doing a couple benchmarks comparing the Ryzen CPU to a few Intel CPUs that I have with me and will post my results up on Mastercam.com forum ("should" hope to have everything completed in the next couple of weeks). 

The new Threadripper that was released last week should expect similar performance to the Ryzen series as the single core performance is the same but if the toolpaths you are using are multi-threaded it should see an improvement (similar to the I9 equivalent).

[jeff]

Sweet!

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Chris, if you wouldn't mind please do the benchmark and share the results here:

That way we can compare them to all the old benchmarks.

[medaq]

6 hours ago, Chris Butt from CNC Software said:

AMD's new CPU lineup have a good price to performance ratio and is good to see competition in this area again. As for the performance inside of Mastercam we have received a few emails regarding this and was able to ordered two Ryzen CPU's for testing (R7 1700).

I will be doing a couple benchmarks comparing the Ryzen CPU to a few Intel CPUs that I have with me and will post my results up on Mastercam.com forum ("should" hope to have everything completed in the next couple of weeks). 

The new Threadripper that was released last week should expect similar performance to the Ryzen series as the single core performance is the same but if the toolpaths you are using are multi-threaded it should see an improvement (similar to the I9 equivalent).

I am excited to see your results on this. 

 

I am curious what tool paths would take advantage of multithreaded cpus. Does the stock model regeneration take advantage of this? 

[gcode]

2 hours ago, medaq said:

I am excited to see your results on this. 

 

I am curious what tool paths would take advantage of multithreaded cpus. Does the stock model regeneration take advantage of this? 

Any toolpaths that gets a little green spool of thread next to it during regen  is taking advantage of multithreading

You can track their regen progress at View/Multithreading

[medaq]

7 minutes ago, gcode said:

Any toolpaths that gets a little green spool of thread next to it during regen  is taking advantage of multithreading

You can track their regen progress at View/Multithreading

Sorry I guess I am wording this wrong. Or maybe I was wording it correct, I am not sure. So every thing being processed in the multithread view page is using more threads or cores on your processor? I guess this is where I am confused about which system to build. Should we be looking at chips focusing on multi thread performance, or should we be looking at single thread performance. Currently my personal bottle neck is stock model regeneration.  I am willing to spend a lot of money on the proper computer to make Mastercam shred optirough and stock model regeneration.  But I am at a loss to find anything definitive on what road to go. Xeon, i9, i7, Amd. Would hate to spend a lot of money to get sub par performance in crease versus the I7 we are currently running. 

[crazy^millman]

15 minutes ago, medaq said:

Sorry I guess I am wording this wrong. Or maybe I was wording it correct, I am not sure. So every thing being processed in the multithread view page is using more threads or cores on your processor? I guess this is where I am confused about which system to build. Should we be looking at chips focusing on multi thread performance, or should we be looking at single thread performance. Currently my personal bottle neck is stock model regeneration.  I am willing to spend a lot of money on the proper computer to make Mastercam shred optirough and stock model regeneration.  But I am at a loss to find anything definitive on what road to go. Xeon, i9, i7, Amd. Would hate to spend a lot of money to get sub par performance in crease versus the I7 we are currently running. 

Until it gets a major overhaul I don't see anything making that much of a difference. I have been going since 5am and maybe 60% of the day has just been dealing with stock models. I have tried Xeon and I-7 and the I-& is doing a faster job, but not ripping through stock models. Best way is to Verify and save as an STL then make a stock model from that. Problem is the the hollow stock models you get from time to time. I have a company willing to spend $60k on a system if I honestly thought it would make a difference, but until someone can prove to me it does I will keep doing my best to get it done.

[mike93]

Good thread, we need a few new computers also, we  do a lot of 3 axis surfacing a lot of models have 10,000 to 40,000 surfaces. all are computers are I7 and have graphics cards I would think 3-5 grand would be in the budget maybe more if you don't have to wait. what is a realistic capital investment .

[jeff]

On 8/16/2017 at 2:48 PM, medaq said:

Bascially what would you build if money was no object. 

If money was no object, I would build 4 different systems and test each one.

Best i9 Xtreme cpu with best Quadro

Best Xeon with best quadro

Best Ryzen with best Vega

and best Threadripper with best Vega.

[crazy^millman]

13 hours ago, mike93 said:

Good thread, we need a few new computers also, we  do a lot of 3 axis surfacing a lot of models have 10,000 to 40,000 surfaces. all are computers are I7 and have graphics cards I would think 3-5 grand would be in the budget maybe more if you don't have to wait. what is a realistic capital investment .

Mike time is money and money is time in our business. Every person programming parts is a business man. Problem is most never see if that way, but every person who programs need to understand what they do and it's impact on the company they work for. Every programmer for any company should be the CTO. Chief Technical Officer not that is really carries any clout, but it should. A good programmer is the life blood of any CNC shop today and they need the best tools to do the job. Any owner or management team worrying about how much a computer cost to run millions of dollars worth of CNC Equipment needs to be taking out back and made to get a pair of scissors and go cut an acre of grass blade by blade. Then next week use some shears then the week after a lawn mower. Then ask them what was the best tool for the job? Same principle applies to computer why are so many companies giving scissors to people to cut 100 acres of grass then get upset when it takes time to go get it done?

Anything under 5K in my opinion tells me the company is only serious about surviving no exceeding. I fall right into the same group I am talking about. My Laptop is a top of the line Dell, and brand new is $6000k. I got it from an over stock dealer for $3300 never been used so I cheaped out in money spent, but not quality. What is sad is Multi-Billion dollar companies for the most part cannot even touch my laptop. I see 100's of engineers and programmers all using i-3 8gb stations and they wonder why things take so long to get done. Stupid stupid stupid but then you dare say something about all of it and your the bad guy.

The computer for a programmer is .05 to .001% of cost for running a shop at most places. In reality it should be more like 5%.

[gcode]

A couple of articles I've read say the P4000 is 70% faster than the M4000 I'm running at home

They also said the main difference between the P4000 and P5000 is $1000

The P6000 is so expensive it's not even open for wishful thinking

[crazy^millman]

20 minutes ago, gcode said:

The P6000 is so expensive it's not even open for wishful thinking

I have put it on the list for one companies IT group and it was quickly shot down. I mumbled hope what you want going up does.

[gcode]

1 hour ago, C^Millman said:

I have put it on the list for one companies IT group and it was quickly shot down. I mumbled hope what you want going up does.

I've been watching the P4000 on Amazon

It fluctuates between $875 and $800..(+$60 state tax) It was down at $810, yesterday and I almost pulled the trigger....

but I'm too busy to install it right now so I passed

[gcode]

the ultimate solution for these huge files we're struggling with is parallel computing.

multiple computers crunching the same toolpath or stock model simultaneously.

I believe HSMWorks can do this, but I've never had the opportunity to test it.

[crazy^millman]

4 minutes ago, gcode said:

the ultimate solution for these huge files we're struggling with is parallel computing.

multiple computers crunching the same toolpath or stock model simultaneously.

I believe HSMWorks can do this, but I've never had the opportunity to test it.

HSMWorks cannot touch the kind of work we do. There is other CAM that can no doubt, but that is a different conversation. 

[gcode]

5 minutes ago, C^Millman said:

HSMWorks cannot touch the kind of work we do. There is other CAM that can no doubt, but that is a different conversation. 

true... I was just referring to it's parallel computing technology...