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Machine Simulator


DavidB
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Curious about this answer - 

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You are running the one through Verify you need to run the on through the Stand alone.

Haven't had much of a chance to use 2018.  Is there a difference between using the machine sim through verify vs launching the stand alone?  I assumed they were identical?

Thanks,

Dan

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4 minutes ago, M. Anderson said:

 

Colin, can you explain this a little further... can the simulation read gcode or is it something else?

Not quite. It isn't a "G-code Parser" like NC Simul or Vericut, but it is better than the "default".

Basically, you "link" a Post Processor (Mastercam Post) and the Simulation Engine (ModuleWorks Machine Simulation) together. It involves jumping through some "hoops" code-wise, but you essentially write extra logic into the Post Processor to output "Simulation Code". This is a "ModuleWorks Simulation Engine" commands.

The end result is that when you "Post" your NC Code, you get a NC Code File, and the same Post Processor also outputs a "CL" or "Centerline Line" File, that drives the Simulator. That means when your Post outputs "G91 G28 Z0", or "G00 G90 G53 Z0", in the NC Code, it will output a "MW MACHINE Z HOME MOVE" command, and the Simulator will "go home" between operations.

It will not catch things like "When cancelling a Tool Length Offset", is the motion "immediate" (crashes Z) into the machine? Those are "Parameter" driven events on the machine, and Vericut and/or NC Simul are the only players in that game at the moment. I believe that ModuleWorks is working on offering that level of integration in the future, but they are not there quite yet.

For most users, this is a very good combination of services. The price is reasonable (10X Less than other "true simulation software packages"), but there are limits. For one, this is "machine dependent". If you have 10 different 5X Machines, you've got to pay to get this done 10 times. For those users, buy NC Simul (much cheaper than Vericut), and go to town building machines.

But for the guys that are just getting into 5X, or that only have a couple machines, this will catch 95% of the issues, when the simulator is properly configured!

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Well I ran my 5-axis posted code through MC Machine Sim and its basically a waste of time. As stated it runs the NCI code. In MC machine sim toolpaths constantly crashes because it does not read home moves in the Z or the G254 (DWO). When I ran the NC program on the actual machine it was all good.

So not to be rude but machine sim is a complete waste of time for our 5-axis machines. It might might be helpful for a learner on a 3-axis machine but verify would be sufficant.

 

 

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13 hours ago, DavidB said:

Well I ran my 5-axis posted code through MC Machine Sim and its basically a waste of time. As stated it runs the NCI code. In MC machine sim toolpaths constantly crashes because it does not read home moves in the Z or the G254 (DWO). When I ran the NC program on the actual machine it was all good.

So not to be rude but machine sim is a complete waste of time for our 5-axis machines. It might might be helpful for a learner on a 3-axis machine but verify would be sufficant.

 

 

You must have missed my Post above where I explained the reasons for this, and the available solutions. You can pay someone to make it work for you, and it works very well.

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1 hour ago, DavidB said:

Yes Colin I know I have to now pay again more coin to get something in MC to work.

What is annoying is MC is not cheep and there are a lot of things that just don't work or as you said I have to pay more coin to get working.

I can't argue with that point. Except to say, the same thing goes for Post Processors as well. You either pay someone good money to do it for you, or learn to do it yourself. Buying any CAM system involves the same processes. You have to do some level of customization to fit the needs of your shop and your machines. This is "Posts" at a minimum. The best shops I've been fortunate enough to work at have also spent the money for Vericut, which is arguably the best Verification package available. None of the "integration" of these software packages is cheap. But as a general rule, you do get what you pay for. Sure, Mastercam itself is "expensive", but you can spend a little extra money to make it that much more efficient. Get Post that also drives Machine Simulation, and you're miles ahead of someone that has to dry run every program, instead of "post-and-go".

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You know, thinking on this....

They(CNC) should at least provide the bones of what is needed.....this. "here's what it is good luck" mentality is not good.

Sorry can't tell you how to use it

Sorry can't help implementation

Sorry can give you any information

I mean really?

With posts, there is a post suite and for those with the ability, the chance to modify their own posts...but with this, there isn't even a peep of what's required and even a few samples, nope..it's here it is......

Frankly, if they're going to offer not direction for it, they really should just pull the plug on it.....

JM2C

and I still want to thank Aaron for at least getting the help file out.....

Edited by Guest
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This is why we won't even consider Mastercam for mill turn.

Even if they had our machines, it appears that user customization is very limited, and you need to buy every machine.

We do things differently than other shops. Our software HAS to cater to our way of doing things to come in our door.

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27 minutes ago, Zoober said:

 

We do things differently than other shops. Our software HAS to cater to our way of doing things to come in our door.

After seeing a little of what you do, and after discussing how you go about the things you do, I can confirm that you are indeed top of your game in what you are doing.

Chapeau!

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8 hours ago, JParis said:

You know, thinking on this....

They(CNC) should at least provide the bones of what is needed.....this. "here's what it is good luck" mentality is not good.

Sorry can't tell you how to use it

Sorry can't help implementation

Sorry can give you any information

I mean really?

With posts, there is a post suite and for those with the ability, the chance to modify their own posts...but with this, there isn't even a peep of what's required and even a few samples, nope..it's here it is......

Frankly, if they're going to offer not direction for it, they really should just pull the plug on it.....

JM2C

and I still want to thank Aaron for at least getting the help file out.....

The deal is that Machine Simulation is produced and licensed by ModuleWorks. They require a Developer Agreement with anyone hooking up Machine Simulation to a Post, and you have to split your revenue with them. They want you to work through a 3rd Party. That's the deal. Would it be great if everything was available to the end user? Sure. But the issue is; who gets paid to support the user who has a problem? Since it isn't CNC Software's code, they end up playing telephone tag with MW. So it is in everyone's interest to let the professionals (3rd party) do the implementation and act as the go-between for MW, while also providing MW with a cut of the profits.

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3 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

The deal is that Machine Simulation is produced and licensed by ModuleWorks. They require a Developer Agreement with anyone hooking up Machine Simulation to a Post, and you have to split your revenue with them. They want you to work through a 3rd Party. That's the deal. Would it be great if everything was available to the end user? Sure. But the issue is; who gets paid to support the user who has a problem? Since it isn't CNC Software's code, they end up playing telephone tag with MW. So it is in everyone's interest to let the professionals (3rd party) do the implementation and act as the go-between for MW, while also providing MW with a cut of the profits.

Thank you for that explaination.

That said, really kind of stinks, it was, at least while I was there, ever presented to us that way.  It was always, it's here, we don't support it.

Sounds like a decision was made to monetize it....

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24 minutes ago, JParis said:

Thank you for that explaination.

That said, really kind of stinks, it was, at least while I was there, ever presented to us that way.  It was always, it's here, we don't support it.

Sounds like a decision was made to monetize it....

Yes, and I believe that was MW's decision. I also believe that they are working on a stand-alone simulator, similar to other players in the market. You can see the beginning stages with the new MW editor, with backplot. I believe it is their intent to develop a full G-code simulation software eventually.

Keep in mind that you can see the sophistication of the MW simulation engine inside Mastercam's Mill-Turn module. So that is ultimately what it is capable of...

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Colin,

You were spot on....course you knew that  :)

I contacted Moduleworks directly before your reply and yes.....to tie it to a post requires a license from Moduleworks...

Quote

Indeed you can customize the machine simulation through the MWCL Format. Basically, you have to set up two post, the usual post which outputs NC code and another one which outputs CL data which can be fed into the MachSim.

However, using the "external Post" functionality/the MWCL Format needs to be licensed directly from us. This product is not included in the Mastercam license but a separate product that reseller can license from us. Therefore, you also do not get any info from CNC Software directly.

What came first, the chicken or the egg, at this point I couldn't care.....but that is why it is not tied to a post and why there is not any public info available about doing it yourself.....it requires a license from ModuleWorks....

Dammit!

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I really wish there was simply a "Machine Simulation"  license that couldbe added to a Hasp. That would solve many problems, by giving the customer a "link" to ModuleWorks, so they could get help with configuration and debugging. I think the issue here is that they would rather work with a small group of people that are trained specialists, than opening it to the general public. You'd get people that can barely program a rectangular Contour calling up for help configuring Machine Simulation for a 5X machine. Where is the money? You would end up spending so much on support it would kill any profits gained. Setting up accurate Machine Simulation is not a trivial task. 

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