control definition 2018 - Control Def / Machine Definition and Generic Haas 4x & 5x posts - What is working / or not working

[kugel619kc130]

Howdy everyone. Recently just began converting our shop from X5 & X6 to 2018. We are mainly equipped with Haas including  a Mori and Roku Verticals + Mitsubishi Wire & Sinker machines. There is 4x and some times 5x work done.

When it comes to making changes in a Control Definition for the Generic Haas posts in 2018, do all of the options and settings that can be manipulated actually make changes or set flags and parameters in how the post should be outputting code? I have read through lots of Colin's info on how everything interrelates and best practices, but I seem to  notice that certain changes made in either the MD or CD don't have any effect on how the code gets posted while others do. If I hand edit the post, it behaves the way I want it....most of the time.

Some of the modifiable items in the MD & CD seem to work, and others don't. I end up manually making the changes in the post directly, but I noticed in the 2018 Haas 4x or 5x post that it specifically warned to not make changes directly in the post and to use the CD & MD. 

Has this been addressed elsewhere on the forum? If I am not imagining this,  does this go back in previous versions? I started in school on X7, and have used professionally x5 through x9.

For the MD and CD, if some options do work and others don't, does there exist any kind of list of options to ignore in the MD or CD (I understand that you should have the MD correct for your machine for verify, simulation, etc).

Am I making sense? 

 

 

[crazy^millman]

MC and CD are still not fully integrated into Mastercam no matter how many times people keep saying it is os doesn't take away from the fact they are not. The post is still the back bone of Mastercam for NC code and that is what you are seeing.

Yes you make perfect sense and since you are going from such older versions to the current version you are getting that whole culture shock coming into play. I suspect you updated a lot of your posts and didn't start with 2018 posts. If that is the case then MD and CD are not updated in post as far as I can tell from older ones and I would expect to see all kind of irregular issues related to that process verse starting from scratch for everything at the 2018 level. Almost better for a shop to start fresh than trying to drag all the old stuff forward is my thoughts. 

Sorry wish I had a better answers, but we see it a lot with shops getting current and we do out best to help them over the hump and headed in a profitable direction.

[Colin Gilchrist]

In General, the Control Definition settings will Override the Initialization values inside the Post, for Pre-Defined, Control Definition Variables.

If you see it in the CD, then that is what takes precedence.

For the MD, it isn't so simple.

Initially (when X was first released), not much was "hooked up" to the MD. That has changed a bit over time.

We have been told in the documentation (I don't frequent the "official forum"), that the 5 Axis Post is "going to be" hooked up to the Machine Definition. I haven't seen this yet, but I also haven't downloaded any of the "newest" posts available to look for myself.

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For the 4 Axis Posts - The Generic 4X Posts have been "hooked up" to the Rotary Axis Component Properties, through logic in the Post.

1. There is logic to "detect" multiple Rotary Components in your Axis Combination. If you have more than "1" Rotary Component, the Post will stop processing and give you an error message.
2. The "Rotary Direction", (CW or CCW), is "hooked up". You use the Rotary Axis Component Dialog to change direction.
3. The "Type" of Rotary (Index to fixed angles only, or "Continuous") is hooked up. There are two different "Radio Buttons" that control this option.
4. The "Type" of Rotary Output is hooked up. This is "Continuous" (1st option), where the rotary is allowed to "wind up" both Positive and Negative. (+1080, or -720 for example). The 2nd Option is "Signed Absolute", which limits the output to +-360 Degrees. Output can still go negative, but axis is not allowed to "wind up". The 3rd Option is "Absolute", which gives you 0-360 degrees only.

So the Post for 4X is setup to read the Rotary Component Properties, but not everything. The Rotary Axis Limits are not "hooked up". There are pre-defined variables to capture the values from the dialog, but no logic to limit the 4th Axis to obey those Rotary Limits.

Also, the "Max Feedrate Values" are read from the General Machine Properties. This affects the values you can enter inside Mastercam's toolpath dialog boxes.

Coolant Settings are read from the Coolant Tab. (MPMaster has additional logic to "pull" the strings directly from the dialog box, Mastercam's Generic Posts do not have the same logic...

I think "Max Spindle Speed" is also read (by Mastercam, not the Post) from the Spindle Component Properties.

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For 5X Posts, CNC Software has published some new info about "changes that are coming", where the settings inside the Post will now be read from the Machine Definition. I have yet to see this myself. From what I have seen, all of the configuration is still done inside the Post File, with very little being read from the MD itself.

All of this info applies to the Generic Fanuc 4X and 5X Mill Post from CNC Software. (And for 4X, for the In-House Solutions's MPMaster Post.)

There are 3rd Party Post Developers that do hook up everything to the MD. So if you have a "Purchased Post", then some of this may not apply to you...

 

 

 

 

[kugel619kc130]

On 10/10/2017 at 5:55 AM, kugel619kc130 said:

changes in a Control Definition for the Generic Haas posts in 2018, do all of the options and settings that can be manipulated actually make changes or set flags and parameters in how the post should be outputting code? I have read through lots of Colin's info on how everything interrelates and best practices, but I seem to  notice that certain changes made in either the MD or CD don't have any effect on how the code gets posted while others do. If I hand edit the post, it behaves the wa

You guys rule! You made my day and I'll buy you a beer or 2 if you are in SoCal.

I was really starting to believe that I didn't actually understand how all of the CD / MD / PST worked.

I hadn't tried moving the "old" posts over to Mcam 2018 yet, especially after reading Colin's 2018 Post Default Settings Guide, the available Mastercam official documentation going back though x4, and scanning through the other threads where folks are having a hard time.

I am in agreement with what C^Millman said with just starting with the new versions of the posts and tailoring them to everyone's' liking from scratch, especially since in my limited view my coworkers have been slogging through their code for a heck of a long time now.  That being said, brings me to my next question:

From what I have read in the documentation, an older post that was written for X6 cannot be upgraded / imported into 2018 without first going through X8. X8 was the last version to "upgrade" older posts. An old post would need to be imported into X8 for it to be possible to import it into 2018. Does the import / upgrade process / wizard actually do anything that I couldn't reasonably do manually myself?

It is my understanding that the "upgrade" that takes effect is that the post needs to be updated to interact cleanly with how a modern Mastercam MPFAN.exe? will apply the MD / CD / Nci to the post?

Other than taking one of Colin's post classes ( I was really bummed that I just missed your last one!) does any documentation exist detailing what needs to be modified or upgraded to bring an older post up to 2018 workability? 

As far as the Haas 4x and 5x posts go (these are the most important for my daily work, I happen to be the only one who handles the 4th and 5th axis programming), my line of thinking after what Colin said would be:

1st: Make sure my CD, MD, and Post file are all titled the exact same, and ensure that the CD is "physically" linked to the correct post file as has been described before.

2nd: Make changes in the CD and MD as if everything in them would work as advertised (even though not everything does).

3rd: Make the hand edits of my posts (with included comments of who, when, and why) of all the things that I need. 

I don't think I would be modifying the CD or MD ever once I get everything where I want it. I will be creating an MD for each specific machine since I use verify and machine simulation a ton and want to get everything as close to reality as possible.

Of course, this would be a duplication of effort in changing the CD and MD, especially when things I altered in the MD or CD actually DO affect the post output, but then again, this would make maintaining a list of what the MD will or won't change irrelevant. 

Again, a huge thanks for the insight and help.

 

 

 

[ChrisVermaak]

Ok here I am now with Mcam 2022 from x5 directly

My x5 I got working perfectly for my Haas VF3 vmc. But now I forgot everything. I make changes in CD and it does not appear in Code. Using the Generic Haas post which came with this upgrade. 

Where can I read more learn more get help?

[#Rekd™]

Since you have upgraded to MC2022 you are on maintenance, contacting your reseller should be the first step.