Jump to content

Welcome to eMastercam

Register now to participate in the forums, access the download area, buy Mastercam training materials, post processors and more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Use your display name or email address to sign in:

Zero Point System


Recommended Posts

HI!

Our company has 2 vertical mills with 1270x570 table (50X26 INCH)

I am looking for a fixture system that has zero point ability 

and have looked at several systems, both mechanical and pneumatic.

 

This one from Gressel seems to be fine in our machine, 2 of these base plates in each machine, and then build on top.

http://www.gressel.ch/en/katalog/mechanisches-nullpunkt-spannsystem-rasterplatte-gredoc-nrs-nullpunkt-raster-system-platten/gredoc-10fach.html

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them, or maybe guide in direction to other systems that would be suitable that do not cost

the same amount as a new machine!

We have 4 gerardi vices in the machine on the table mostly, but we are now expanding and develop new products, so the 4th axis and plates with jigs on the table will also be

more used in the future, therefore need for more efficient setups.

We can do good with mechanical zero point systems or just more quick changeable systems, just would be good to get pros and cons before deciding and telling the boss the cost!

I have looked at Lang, Schunk, Rohm, Mitebitee and Gressel, any other suggestions please advice.

Miteebite has also an interesting one, this :

http://www.miteebite.com/products/quick-change-mechanical-receiver-and-blank-pallet/

if that is possible to make your own baseplate for and use the parts it may be the winner, i need bigger plate than those as standard to fit all the table in the machine

as i plan to do.

So, have you any good advice on this topic please share, TIA

G

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use the jergins ball locks.

They work pretty good. We use them in the 5 axis also for parts we secure thru the back on the sub plates. Easy to make your own. Just bore holes for the liners.

 

They have a bunch of different sizes. Four of the 16 mm shanks held a 20" invar ring to rough side wall pockets in or mx 520

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used Ball locks on several horizontal linear cell systems with good success. For three axis though the most versatile I have used was a hole / bushing pattern machined into a subplate with shoulder bolt locators, this gave a closer spacing more versatile system for 3 axis . It might be tempting to get "pre drilled" (for whatever locator) plates or tombstones but this will give different results for each machine, so now you need different progams with different G10 lines for the different machines (assuming you are running the same make / model across the system).

The best system I was involved with was a 2 spindle 45 pallet linear cell. We got blank tombstones and faced and ball lock patterned each tomb stone using one spindle as a "master". Then we grid shifted the second spindle to match the first. All programs to centerline. All fixtures were made on standard thickness plates which ball locked to the tombstones. We generally qualified Z surfaces (sometimes X and Y depending on the part)  on the fixture in the master spindle. The only offsets that needed to be set were Tool offsets (no G10 lines). All programs could go to either spindle, it was (and still is) a very productive cell with minimum headaches........

Have a plan before you start

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheapest to keep clean I have ever seen was a Penny cap system. A Counter bore was made at the top of the tapped and lined holes to press fit a penny into it. When you needed the hole you took a flat screw driver and hit the penny and out came the penny. Cheapest protection for a hole on a CNC Milling center I have every seen. Price a set screw or and plastic cap cheapest I ever seen was 7 cents and they were not good quality. Price out a grid with a 2" spacing and see ow many holes can be on some machines. Then how much time does it take to clean out the hole full of chips. Shop rate of $60/hr means every minute you are cleaning out the hole you are losing $2 a minute with set screws or other things to keep the hole clean. My thought is when it is a 5 second process using pennies it is so much faster and cheaper.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...

Sorry I keep reviving topics from the dead.

A lot has changed in the last 2.5-3 years. More and more companies are offering these type setups. We are getting a new used Mazak 500A-5x mill. In the process of working towards standardizing everything in this company I have had the discussion with my boss about all new tooling as we get new machines and he seems on board. The topic came up for a zero point system. We recently bought all new 5th Axis products for a production part on a Variaxis i700, riser, 2 vises, 2 dovetails. Looks great, website is super user friendly, we are really happy with them thus far. However everything in a production shop is based off speed and he is interested in going to a pneumatic system, as we are rapidly growing and hoping to get some pallet setups in the next few years. I REALLY don't want to have a mess of products from different companies. I would like to, if possible, go with one company and stick with them for the foreseeable future.

The companies with the largest options I've come across are:

Schunk: we have just 1 Schunk vise, our tool guy pushes them and my boss seemed on board with them, they seem to have an extremely large variety)

Gerardi:I personally love Gerardi products and they have a nice 500mm plate that would fit great on the new mill. But they are severely lacking in the pyramid/dovetail department.

Roemheld: We are transitioning to using Roemheld/Carr Lane for our hydraulic fixtures that we primarily use on aluminum extrusions. This should be an easy company to choose for this reason, but they definitely don't seem as "plug and play" as some others. Everything would require a lot more engineering to choose them on my part. 

Lang: They have a pretty good selection. They have a good plate and adapter selection and everything seems like it is on a 52mm/96mm grid? (Does this work with 5th Axis equipment?) Because I don't see any pyramids or dovetail selection. Also, everything is mechanical, nothing pneumatic? Risers seem tall..I only have ~12" of z travel(20x20x20 envelope). 

Big Kaiser: all mechanical, everything seems too big for our envelope.

FCS: same as big kaiser.

Kurt: Has a surprising selection. Prices are transparent, listed on website, seem high. 

 

Any other companies I should look into, preferably with pneumatic options, but not absolutely necessary? Again, I would prefer one company we can go through with plates, risers, vises, dovetails. 

 

TIA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As your finding the one fits al is not really the case. Everything you mentioned is spot on and just have to get what you need for the application and decide your going to stick with it. Adapt where you need to to use what is needed and you will see get the right fit for the things you need. 5th Axis and Lang are pretty close to each other IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We use Schunk VERO-S in our mills for robot loading of pallets. The vertical mill has 24"*14" pallets with 6 vERO-S modules. The 5x VMC has 18"*14" or 14"*14" pallets with 4 VERO-S modules. They have been in production 24/7 for the last 6 months. No issues so far. 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing I don't see being discussed here is accuracy, which is a big concern with these systems depending on the tolerances you need to hold. They all claim things like .0002" repeatability, which doesn't really mean anything. You need to determine what kind of parallelism and square will work for you and your parts. There is a massive difference between Lang and FCS in this department, Lang being really fast and easy to use but substantially less accurate, and FCS being substantially slower and more cumbersome to use but being much more accurate. Which is best is application dependent.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys,

I'm currently in the process of getting a quote on a system from Zero Clamp:

 https://www.zeroclamp.com/en/home/ 

https://www.youtube.com/user/ZeroClampGmbH/videos

I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with a guy from there today. Everything on their setup seems really clean and complete, I like their form fit solution over the one size fits most solution from others. What really seems to push them over the top in my opinion is their ability to implement fully robotic automated cells as well. We'll see if I can get the boss to bite. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2020 at 3:19 PM, jwvt88 said:

Any other companies I should look into, preferably with pneumatic options, but not absolutely necessary? Again, I would prefer one company we can go through with plates, risers, vises, dovetails. 

tooling:

https://www.gfms.com/s3r/en/products/tooling/parts-production.html

through full automation:

https://www.gfms.com/s3r/en/products/automation.html

-i've been liking their dynafix aluminum pallets. Easily modifiable with hard  steel mounting points. 5th axis, the dovetail vise outfit, now makes the pallets in USA too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Join us!

eMastercam - your online source for all things Mastercam.

Together, we are the strongest Mastercam community on the web with over 56,000 members, and our online store offers a wide selection of training materials for all applications and skill levels.

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...