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MariTool Holders


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I can't answer that question but i can tell you there are alot of fanbois over at PracticalMachinist.com

Alot of people seem to like them.

Pricing is pretty good too. I'm probably gonna order a few BT30-ER20/ER16/ER11 chucks for a project, i will report back when i get the tools in.

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21 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

Check with your machine seller before you jump. Mori - Seki for instance only allow Big Kaiser, else you void your warranty......

In what way do they void the warranty?

You can obviously use a standard BIG holder in a mori as well as a dual contact BIG holder in a mori, so are they saying you have to use dual contact only, or only holders made by BIG?

 

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The tolerance requirements for dual contact are pretty tight, since it relies on a slight deformation of the spindle taper and holder.  If they specify only certain brands and anything else voids the warranty it's because they don't trust other makers to hold the requisite tolerances.  An out of tolerance holder could cause excessive deformation and damage the spindle.

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:14 AM, newbeeee said:

In what way do they void the warranty?

See also Rekd and Matts responses. Only dual contact made by Big. Don't know how they would be able to tell but our local Mori rep was pretty adamant, that was over a year ago so machine is now out of warranty, so the restriction no longer applies and interestingly it was Kenematal holders we wanted to use, and are now allowed.

Just as a matter of interest , MOST taper contact holders don't meet spec (depending on manufacturer). Even the normal taper contact specs are pretty tight. We have a local guy who regrinds spindle tapers and he also builds and sells tools to verify specs on holders. Normal procedure is you buy one of his tools, order a bunch of holders and then return about 1/2 that don't meet spec......Eventually the supplier gets sick of you returning holders and starts verifying specs before he sends them to you. It should be noted that for most applications and purposes although out of spec the holders are functionally OK.

Like most things you get what you pay for. Most of the extra cost of more expensive tools in our business is down to quality control, which is always costly.....

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Our new machine is a Doosan DNM4500. The application guy at our dealer told me you don't have to use big plus holders for drills, taps etc. He said face mill, long collet chucks, long end mill holders must be big plus.

I plan on starting fresh as far as tooling goes for this machine (as much as possible). 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, #Rekd™ said:

The application guy at our dealer told me you don't have to use big plus holders for drills, taps etc. He said face mill, long collet chucks, long end mill holders must be big plus.

We actually went with dual contact on drills too. Unusually for aerospace we drill a lot of holes here. We definitely saw a benefit from the super low run out on the Big Kaiser holders , especially drilling 9D - 12D holes (0.046 - 0.080 dia) for wirelock holes in hardened 15-5 and Inconel. I wouldn't be so concerned if we were just doing pilot holes in aluminum or something similar.

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7 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

See also Rekd and Matts responses. Only dual contact made by Big.

Yes - I understand about the deformation etc and if you see the BIG Daishowa website they have a video giving a great demo of the benefits of dual contact - and even say the holders repeat better for positional too (ie not just more rigid).

What surprised me, is that Mori said dual contact only, which I can fully understand for milling applications (ie heavy loading) but if you were just spotting (as per your example), or running a 5mm dia cutter in ally, I do not see any reason why you cannot use standard holders? Even the Big Daishowa catalogue states that their dual contact system "offers interchangeability with existing machines and toolholders"

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1 minute ago, newbeeee said:

What surprised me, is that Mori said dual contact only

What they said was that they would only authorize Big Kaiser dual contact without violating the warranty. Mori and Big Kaiser are tight and have teamed up with each other and run "technnology centers" using each others equipment. Big Kaisers test facility is full of Moris and  Mori's test facility is full of Big Kaiser holders. Although evidently if you can prove quality control they will let in others as they now allow Kennemetal too, and I am sure others will follow.....They don't care what "standard taper contact" holders you use.

My original response was because the thread was about dual contact holders not taper contact holders......

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41 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Tell them to prove it.

I'm not sure they have to prove anything to anybody to write their warranty requirements / policy. And it would appear that now they allow Kenenmetal as well (see Rekd's response) so clearly as holder manufacturers can prove their quality control they will add them to the list, our machine is 18 months old now and since then it has changed already to include Kennemetal, but who they include on there list is up to them, not you or me.

I know the Kennemetal PNW sales manger, I will ask him what the skinny is from Kennemetal's point of view...

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I was saying Mori would need to come in and prove that you were using "off brand" holders.  If you had been you could easily sequester them to some dark corner when they come visit.  But I wonder what aspect of the spindle they would "void" the warranty on by using an off brand holder.  Do they void the entire spindle, just the taper, or the entire machine.  IMHO, it should just be the the taper, and also in my experience, it doesn't matter whose tools you use, if you don't keep things clean, all will be for naught regardless.  Most operators out there are careless and no matter how many times you beat them with a stick they won't wipe tool holder tapers and spindle tapers clean unless you hold thier hands.  By the time maintenance or setup guys get their hands on it, its too late.

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Man, everything voids a warranty.  If you read the fine print close enough you will see that the 90 cent filter on the cabinet will void the warranty.  It's all liability and to get as much off of them as possible.  I've never seen a machine be denied warranty service save one that was quite obviously crashed.

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