Tap Code for MATSUURA VX1000

[PcRobotic]

Hello everyone,
   I'm having problem with tapping cycle of MATSUURA VX1000.  I used M29 and the tapped hole is "NO GO" becomes "GO".  Am I using the wrong M-Code for tapping?  I have 5-Axis MATSUURA, brand new and they use M80 for tapping cycle M-Code but don't know why they use M29 for a VERTICAL machine.



Please help,
   S.Luong

Thanks a million.

[crazy^millman]

Get a hold of Selway and they will point you in the right direction. They are the Matsuura dealer for your area.

[Colin Gilchrist]

What method are you using for tapping, unit per minute (IPM or MMPM), or Feed per Revolution?

With either method, you need to find the 'Feedrate Formatting' that is allowed on your machine. This is given to you in the Programming Manual. All machines have one for the control that is used on the machine.

If your Control will accept 6 decimal place precision, and your feedrate is only output as 3 or 4 decimal place, that could be your problem.

You must get the manual for the actual Control Unit on your machine. The configuration of the machine, horizontal or vertical, has nothing to do with the codes required for tapping. You could have two similar Vertical Matsuuras, with completely different NC Code Formats. This is due to both the "type" of Control unit, and the Parameter Settings that control the behavior of the machine.

[Leon82]

fanuc control?

our vplus 1000 uses m80/ m89

m80 is adtap and retracts faster rpm

m89 is standard with the same retract.M29 opens the atc door.

there is also a couple parameters for rigid taping you can look at

 

 

[Leon82]

if you scroll thru the parameters for drilling (5000 area I think) it will say tap m code in a field

[gelugeg]

don,t complicate your life-use G84 and feed/rev,with appropriate RPM.

I need training for Mastercam X9, because the company where I work now does not use MC 2017 or 2018. Can you help me !?
Thanks in advance,
Eugen

[PcRobotic]

On 22/11/2017 at 8:58 PM, Colin Gilchrist said:

What method are you using for tapping, unit per minute (IPM or MMPM), or Feed per Revolution?

With either method, you need to find the 'Feedrate Formatting' that is allowed on your machine. This is given to you in the Programming Manual. All machines have one for the control that is used on the machine.

If your Control will accept 6 decimal place precision, and your feedrate is only output as 3 or 4 decimal place, that could be your problem.

You must get the manual for the actual Control Unit on your machine. The configuration of the machine, horizontal or vertical, has nothing to do with the codes required for tapping. You could have two similar Vertical Matsuuras, with completely different NC Code Formats. This is due to both the "type" of Control unit, and the Parameter Settings that control the behavior of the machine.

Hi Colin,
   I tried roll tap and it worked real well with M29.  I really don't know why.

[PcRobotic]

On 24/11/2017 at 4:55 AM, Leon82 said:

fanuc control?

our vplus 1000 uses m80/ m89

m80 is adtap and retracts faster rpm

m89 is standard with the same retract.M29 opens the atc door.

there is also a couple parameters for rigid taping you can look at

 

 

Hi Leon82,
   I tried the M80 and it had alarm on it, it didn't tap.  I'll try the M89 tomorrow.  Thank you.

[PcRobotic]

On 25/11/2017 at 6:11 AM, gelugeg said:

don,t complicate your life-use G84 and feed/rev,with appropriate RPM.

I need training for Mastercam X9, because the company where I work now does not use MC 2017 or 2018. Can you help me !?
Thanks in advance,
Eugen

Hi Gelugeg,
   For sure I used the right speeds and feeds by "10".

1/4-20, S200 F10. Cut tap didn't work well but roll tap so perfect.  Any suggestions?

[Colin Gilchrist]

1 hour ago, PcRobotic said:

Hi Colin,
   I tried roll tap and it worked real well with M29.  I really don't know why.

What does the manual for your machine say? You must find out what specific format is needed for each control. Otherwise you are just guessing. Which is a terrible way to write a Post.

Every machine on the planet is produced with a Programming Manual that tells you all the specifics about the codes and capabilities of that particular machine. Even used equipment, "at one point in time", had a manual. Just get a copy. You may have to call the Control Manufacturer and order a copy, but there is a manual, somewhere in the world, that would tell you the exact format required.

I am saying all of this stuff Steven, because I genuinely want to help you and see you succeed. But I feel like you never really listen to my suggestions. I have tried so many times to get you to "slow down, and listen", but you refuse. You have a basic grasp of post editing, but much of your success are just based on "copy and paste", without understanding how the MP language really works. You try and mix String and Numeric variable definitions. (A big no-no) You don't know what a String Select Function does, or how to create and use one of your own. Because of that, you end up breaking the ones that exist.

I sincerely want to help you get better. I really do.

But you must be willing to admit that there are things you don't know, and be willing to listen and learn. I have suggested to you many times that you should take my Basic Post Processor course. It would do you so much good,  and it is very inexpensive, considering how much instruction time there is for the price.

[Leon82]

Are you sure you have a good tap?

[Leon82]

Parameters 5210 will give you the tap code

[MIL-TFP-41]

	G90 G54 G0 X0. Y0.
G43 H20 Z.1
	G95 (IPR FEED)
M80 S200
G84 G98 Z-.75 R.05 F.05
X1.9517 Y.112
G80
G94
M9
	

this works on all of our Fanuc based Matsuura's.

[tim_h]

The example above works on our Matsuura MX-520..

I had some issues as well when the machine first arrived. A call to our machine seller is all it took.

[crazy^millman]

49 minutes ago, tim_h said:

The example above works on our Matsuura MX-520..

I had some issues as well when the machine first arrived. A call to our machine seller is all it took.

Hum seems I said that already.

[tim_h]

Just re-affirming...

[PcRobotic]

11 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

What does the manual for your machine say? You must find out what specific format is needed for each control. Otherwise you are just guessing. Which is a terrible way to write a Post.

Every machine on the planet is produced with a Programming Manual that tells you all the specifics about the codes and capabilities of that particular machine. Even used equipment, "at one point in time", had a manual. Just get a copy. You may have to call the Control Manufacturer and order a copy, but there is a manual, somewhere in the world, that would tell you the exact format required.

I am saying all of this stuff Steven, because I genuinely want to help you and see you succeed. But I feel like you never really listen to my suggestions. I have tried so many times to get you to "slow down, and listen", but you refuse. You have a basic grasp of post editing, but much of your success are just based on "copy and paste", without understanding how the MP language really works. You try and mix String and Numeric variable definitions. (A big no-no) You don't know what a String Select Function does, or how to create and use one of your own. Because of that, you end up breaking the ones that exist.

I sincerely want to help you get better. I really do.

But you must be willing to admit that there are things you don't know, and be willing to listen and learn. I have suggested to you many times that you should take my Basic Post Processor course. It would do you so much good,  and it is very inexpensive, considering how much instruction time there is for the price.

Hi Colin,
  Thank you for your feedback.  The machine was bought by some dudes and I called SELWAY, they said M89 may be a good fit.  Back to the post thing, honestly I am running out of financial to learn things since I just got my brand new son (19 months).  I totally agree with you that sometimes I'm way to fast of what my knowledge capacity and you may already know SAN JOSE, SILLICON VALLEY is a place with "NO JOKE".  Owners would scream on the floor just saying "WHERE ARE MY PARTS? I NEED THEM NOW, NOT LATER, I NEED NOW".  I guess it's just environment made a person of who I am right now.  And.. and you already know how that is since you already worked for a CNC giant company before, they all nuts with rushing parts like "hell".  Once again, I truly respect your knowledge and I am saving money to get some private tutorial from you about posts.

[Newbeeee™]

are you saying that the nogo goes in and the go doesn't?

 

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

^ I Hate when that happens ^^

[Colin Gilchrist]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:04 PM, PcRobotic said:

Hi Colin,
  Thank you for your feedback.  The machine was bought by some dudes and I called SELWAY, they said M89 may be a good fit.  Back to the post thing, honestly I am running out of financial to learn things since I just got my brand new son (19 months).  I totally agree with you that sometimes I'm way to fast of what my knowledge capacity and you may already know SAN JOSE, SILLICON VALLEY is a place with "NO JOKE".  Owners would scream on the floor just saying "WHERE ARE MY PARTS? I NEED THEM NOW, NOT LATER, I NEED NOW".  I guess it's just environment made a person of who I am right now.  And.. and you already know how that is since you already worked for a CNC giant company before, they all nuts with rushing parts like "hell".  Once again, I truly respect your knowledge and I am saving money to get some private tutorial from you about posts.

 

Hi Steven,

I can appreciate your situation with the demands of the company you work for.

I think that maybe you are so stressed out, that you miss the meaning of what I'm trying to convey to you.

I don't want to do a private tutorial session with me. I want you to take a "Basic Post Class", and learn all of the basics, along with everyone else. You have to make the time to do this. It isn't a big commitment. It is 2.5 hours of class, on Tuesday and Thursday nights, and 2 hours on Saturday. So it is about 7 hours per week, for 4 weeks.

There are many "basic" things about the MP Language that you need to learn, and taking a class is the absolute least expensive way to learn this stuff.  I'm honestly, from the bottom of my heart, trying to save you money!  Learning the basics in a one-on-one teaching environment is probably the most expensive way to go about learning Posts. So taking this basic course will save you money in the long run.

I'm not willing to do any more one-on-one "training" for you, until you've taken this basic class.  Once you've taken the Basic Post Course, I'd consider resuming our one-on-one training work.

The reason is that I just end up doing "directed Post Development" for you. You end up telling me "this is what I want", and I write the code for you. That isn't really "training". Because at the end of the training sessions, you can't reproduce what I'm doing, beyond "copy and paste". I want to really teach you how to write Posts, but you absolutely must understand some of the basics of how the Post language works, and you are missing some key bits of knowledge.

I need you to understand how the existing logic works. You need to be able to answer these questions, in your own words:

1. How does a "Post Block" work? Explain how to "define" a Post Block, and how to call it.
2. What is the difference between a "Pre-Defined" Post Block, A "User-defined Post Block", and an "Implied Post Block"?
3. What is the difference between a Numeric Variable and a String Variable? How do you define each one?
4. What functions can be used on a Numeric Variable?
5. What functions can be used on a String Variable?
6. How do you convert Data Types? (Numeric to String, or String to Numeric?)
7. What is the role of the Format Statement and Format Assignment in defining the output of Numeric Variables?
8. What is Modality? What are Variable Modifiers, and how are they used?
9. What does (!) do? What does (*) do?
10. How do you control the Modality of a String Select Variable?
11. What is the "selector" variable for 'sgcode'? What mechanism inside MP controls the Selector Variable? (How does the variable's value get changed?)
12. What is the "selector" variable for 'sccomp'? In the Generic Haas 4X Mill Post, list the line numbers of each line where the selector variable is modified. What does setting this variable to 'zero' do?
13. What is 'drlgsel'? How does it get set to control the output of 'sgdrill'?
14. What is the purpose of 'pdrlcommonb' and 'pcom_movea' for all Drill Canned Cycles?
15. When a Drill Cycle is used, what variable is used in 'ptlchg$' to "look ahead" to find the Drill Cycle value?
16. Parameter 12713 holds the "2D toolpath style" parameter. (0-8, which is "nine" total values). Write a String Select table to output the "name" of the 2D HST Operation. Use the 'tool_op$' variable to only output the Comment when the Operation is a "2D HST" type operation.

 

 

[Leon82]

8 hours ago, newbeeee said:

are you saying that the nogo goes in and the go doesn't?

 

I had that happen on a form tap once The no-go slipped in like a pin and the go was very tight.

[PcRobotic]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, Colin Gilchrist said:

 

Hi Steven,

I can appreciate your situation with the demands of the company you work for.

I think that maybe you are so stressed out, that you miss the meaning of what I'm trying to convey to you.

I don't want to do a private tutorial session with me. I want you to take a "Basic Post Class", and learn all of the basics, along with everyone else. You have to make the time to do this. It isn't a big commitment. It is 2.5 hours of class, on Tuesday and Thursday nights, and 2 hours on Saturday. So it is about 7 hours per week, for 4 weeks.

There are many "basic" things about the MP Language that you need to learn, and taking a class is the absolute least expensive way to learn this stuff.  I'm honestly, from the bottom of my heart, trying to save you money!  Learning the basics in a one-on-one teaching environment is probably the most expensive way to go about learning Posts. So taking this basic course will save you money in the long run.

I'm not willing to do any more one-on-one "training" for you, until you've taken this basic class.  Once you've taken the Basic Post Course, I'd consider resuming our one-on-one training work.

The reason is that I just end up doing "directed Post Development" for you. You end up telling me "this is what I want", and I write the code for you. That isn't really "training". Because at the end of the training sessions, you can't reproduce what I'm doing, beyond "copy and paste". I want to really teach you how to write Posts, but you absolutely must understand some of the basics of how the Post language works, and you are missing some key bits of knowledge.

I need you to understand how the existing logic works. You need to be able to answer these questions, in your own words:

1. How does a "Post Block" work? Explain how to "define" a Post Block, and how to call it.
2. What is the difference between a "Pre-Defined" Post Block, A "User-defined Post Block", and an "Implied Post Block"?
3. What is the difference between a Numeric Variable and a String Variable? How do you define each one?
4. What functions can be used on a Numeric Variable?
5. What functions can be used on a String Variable?
6. How do you convert Data Types? (Numeric to String, or String to Numeric?)
7. What is the role of the Format Statement and Format Assignment in defining the output of Numeric Variables?
8. What is Modality? What are Variable Modifiers, and how are they used?
9. What does (!) do? What does (*) do?
10. How do you control the Modality of a String Select Variable?
11. What is the "selector" variable for 'sgcode'? What mechanism inside MP controls the Selector Variable? (How does the variable's value get changed?)
12. What is the "selector" variable for 'sccomp'? In the Generic Haas 4X Mill Post, list the line numbers of each line where the selector variable is modified. What does setting this variable to 'zero' do?
13. What is 'drlgsel'? How does it get set to control the output of 'sgdrill'?
14. What is the purpose of 'pdrlcommonb' and 'pcom_movea' for all Drill Canned Cycles?
15. When a Drill Cycle is used, what variable is used in 'ptlchg$' to "look ahead" to find the Drill Cycle value?
16. Parameter 12713 holds the "2D toolpath style" parameter. (0-8, which is "nine" total values). Write a String Select table to output the "name" of the 2D HST Operation. Use the 'tool_op$' variable to only output the Comment when the Operation is a "2D HST" type operation.

 

 

Hi Colin,
   Do you do these training during the weekend hours?  I think you are right, I need basic stuff and I hope you have flexible hours for weekend.


Best regards,
   S.Luong

[PcRobotic]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:58 PM, Colin Gilchrist said:

What method are you using for tapping, unit per minute (IPM or MMPM), or Feed per Revolution?

With either method, you need to find the 'Feedrate Formatting' that is allowed on your machine. This is given to you in the Programming Manual. All machines have one for the control that is used on the machine.

If your Control will accept 6 decimal place precision, and your feedrate is only output as 3 or 4 decimal place, that could be your problem.

You must get the manual for the actual Control Unit on your machine. The configuration of the machine, horizontal or vertical, has nothing to do with the codes required for tapping. You could have two similar Vertical Matsuuras, with completely different NC Code Formats. This is due to both the "type" of Control unit, and the Parameter Settings that control the behavior of the machine.

 

Hi Colin,
   Here is what I've found.  I called SELWAY people and they "GAVE UP" because the brand new machine as MATSUURA company they really have issue with tapping NO GO becomes GO when we have "GUMMY" material such as ALUM 3003, COPPER... The sent nearly 5 guys and spent 3 days with us, here is what they came up with their final decision:

1. We will modify the TAPPING CYCLE MACRO inside the PARAMETER of the control to match up FEED DOWN and RAPID UP at the same speed when tapping.
2. Vertical Matsuura VX1000 using M29 tapping cycle where as 5 Axis using M80, they could not modified it to M80 like the way of 5-AXIS, Horizontal M89.
3. In the mean time they told me they would comeback with 2 more application engineers just for the tapping issue which is also happened on 5-AXIS too.


We tested the same program, same 1/4-20 cut tap with the same gummy material on MAKINO and it worked real fine.

The speed and feeds we tested was:
M29 S200
G84 G98 R.125 Z-.500 F10.

Thank you for your feedback, Colin.   

[Leon82]

7 minutes ago, PcRobotic said:

 

Hi Colin,
   Here is what I've found.  I called SELWAY people and they "GAVE UP" because the brand new machine as MATSUURA company they really have issue with tapping NO GO becomes GO when we have "GUMMY" material such as ALUM 3003, COPPER... The sent nearly 5 guys and spent 3 days with us, here is what they came up with their final decision:

1. We will modify the TAPPING CYCLE MACRO inside the PARAMETER of the control to match up FEED DOWN and RAPID UP at the same speed when tapping.
2. Vertical Matsuura VX1000 using M29 tapping cycle where as 5 Axis using M80, they could not modified it to M80 like the way of 5-AXIS, Horizontal M89.
3. In the mean time they told me they would comeback with 2 more application engineers just for the tapping issue which is also happened on 5-AXIS too.


We tested the same program, same 1/4-20 cut tap with the same gummy material on MAKINO and it worked real fine.

The speed and feeds we tested was:
M29 S200
G84 G98 R.125 Z-.500 F10.

Thank you for your feedback, Colin.   

Can you humor me and tell me what parameter 5200 bit 0 is set to and what the number in  5210 is

 

On 11/29/2017 at 3:46 AM, newbeeee said:

One day I'll figure out how to fix this

[Colin Gilchrist]

You'll always have issues tapping on those machines in gummy materials. I would bet it is a combination of the Machine's accuracy, and the holders you are using.

You could solve all of these issues by changing strategy.

Thread Mill the holes, so you gain process control, and reliability.

Thread Milling is superior to cut tapping, because you don't have the reversal of the spindle to worry about. All of your crappy Tool Holder issues go away. (Well, mostly. You still need a good, low-run out Holder to hold the Thread Mill.)

If you get "multi-tooth" Thread Mills, they will cut the whole thread with 2 passes. A Rough, and a Finish.

You must use "helical Entry", and "helical Exit" for internal holes.