g huns

Spindle Speeders

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We are getting a couple HMCs that only have 10K RPM, CAT50 spindles. These are full 4th axis machines with all the Fanuc 31i-MA go fast goodies. We build injection molds and would like to take advantage of the the 4th axis to do more finishing milling and pickouts. Running a 1/8" ball at 10K isn't the end of the world, but for 1/16" and 1/32" cutters, it pretty much would be.

I had never given spindle speed increasers a second though and now that I'm looking into them, they kinda all suck. Either limited by a "duty factor" or so big and clunky they'd would never fit into our biggest cavities without a collision.

The most promising so far are the ones from Air Turbine. Not terribly big and clunky, but hardly slim. And they don't have a range for RPM, just pick one that's 40K, 50K, or whatever and live with it.

Any suggestions?

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16 minutes ago, JParis said:

We've been looking at these..

http://sfi-toodle.com/

Haven't done it.....yet

That's cool AF.:yes

But coolant drive isn't great for us. Machining 56Rc cavities with coolant ain't good.

Air drive would be ok, as long as it's externally supplied. Air-thru-spindle don't cool the machine's rotary union so good.

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Guest

There is a coolant version and an air version

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7 minutes ago, g huns said:

That's cool AF.:yes

But coolant drive isn't great for us. Machining 56Rc cavities with coolant ain't good.

Air drive would be ok, as long as it's externally supplied. Air-thru-spindle don't cool the machine's rotary union so good.

I've never been accused of being a rocket scientist but the spindle wouldn't be turning so there would be no sliding friction of the union, Right?

 

 i've always wanted to engineer an air powered unit that was also suspended by air bearings for super long life and unlimited duty cycle. If you steal my idea you must share the profits:P

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Just now, mkd said:

I've never been accuse of being a rocket scientist but the spindle wouldn't be turning so there would be no sliding friction of the union, Right?

 

Duh.:blink:

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56 minutes ago, specv said:

We have this one, 40,000 rpm

http://www.airturbinetools.com/spindles/specs/602cat40.html

and this one: 30,000 rpm

http://www.airturbinetools.com/spindles/specs/625cat40.html

We plugged the side port and run air through the spindle, they were fine with that since we still filter the air coming into the machine. 

How well do these run (or how long do they hold up) using the thru spindle air? I was looking at them but got concerned about the residual coolant mist from the previous tools that use thru coolant.

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50 minutes ago, MIL-TFP-41 said:

How well do these run (or how long do they hold up) using the thru spindle air? I was looking at them but got concerned about the residual coolant mist from the previous tools that use thru coolant.

I can't really give a time frame but they last longer the more you use them (we have had them for about 2 years). What we do is bring a coolant trough tool into the spindle before the speeder and purge for about 20 seconds. This reduces any residual coolant in the lines.

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

Intriguing.  So you could spin this to add your spindle speed to the speeder's speed (or subtract)?  Any idea how much they cost?

The machine spindle doesn't turn.

Tool is driven by coolant or air pressure.

I was told about $550 for a unit. The bearings and turbine are thrown away with the used up tool. I don't know what those cost. But the guy I talked to said Horn USA will be selling their endmills with the bearings and turbines pre-mounted. Currently waiting on a price list.

The guy was kind of puzzled how I'd heard of them. Said they kicked off in Europe and were just now starting to set up for North America and Asia. Have done ZERO marketing. I told him eMC knows and sees all.:smoke:

 

  • Haha 1

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Just now, #Rekd™ said:

That airturbine air spindle is over $3K US.

 

The CAT50 ones I looked at were from $5300 to $6600, plus $1250 for the mounting block to make them automatic tool change.:blink:

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11 minutes ago, g huns said:

The machine spindle doesn't turn.

Tool is driven by coolant or air pressure.

I was told about $550 for a unit. The bearings and turbine are thrown away with the used up tool. I don't know what those cost. But the guy I talked to said Horn USA will be selling their endmills with the bearings and turbines pre-mounted. Currently waiting on a price list.

The guy was kind of puzzled how I'd heard of them. Said they kicked off in Europe and were just now starting to set up for North America and Asia. Have done ZERO marketing. I told him eMC knows and sees all.:smoke:

 

The site says it goes in a standard toolholder, and my through spindle coolant and air work fine while the spindle is turning, so while you could leave the machine spindle off, if the turbine goes 40K and your spindle goes 15K you could have anywhere from 25K to 55K, controllable.

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Just gonna leave this here...I happen to have a 40,000 precise spindle, complete with aux chiller and mounting brackets. Hardly used!  I bought it for a custom job & its complete. Was supposed to go with my machine/shop when I sold. The buyer didn't want it. Anyone interested?   PM me so we don't hijack the current thread unless its the OP.

 

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Obviously the ends must justify the means. I have retrofitted a Robodrill and DMG Milltap to toolchange, using only 1-pocket, and utilizing custom M-Codes to operate (2) 150,000 RPM turbine spindles. Its pretty cool drilling holes at 160 I.P.M with a #75 carbide drill.

 

BTW...I have (6) Cat 30, 65,000 RPM, Air Turbine Spindles, never used, for sale if anyone is interested.

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