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surface rough pocket


TERRYH
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I'm using X9 and trying to make a roughing program using surface rough pocket, something we have used 1000's of times before, and it will not process the program. I have made sure the boundary is flat, I analyzed the chain  making sure there are no breaks, and checked for doubles and every thing else I know to check. all of the settings are correct, I double checked them to one I did this morning that worked fine. It allowed me to use the boundary I created to make a contour program to cut the OD, and it allowed me to use same boundary to do a surface finish scallop program and I did some test cuts to verify the stock on the casting using surface finish project. SO I don't think it is surface related, and I even had my boss create a boundary and imported it in and it still would not process. I do not know how to upload a file for others to look at without instructions. 

error.PNG

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Not taken as a smart aleck JP but that's all we use when it comes to roughing stuff it was how they did it 6-7 years ago when I started programming and I just know how to do what they taught me to do it. We are not given time to try to learn new ways and none of us have ever had any sort of formal training at all. It kind of makes me feel like a fool coming on here asking for help because we've never been up to date with newest versions, and because of how we do stuff. And  do not know what the combine views on the chain is. 

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Hi Terry,

The first thing I always try, with any Chain in Mastercam, is to do a 2D Contour Tool Path on it.  The Chaining Dialog and "method" in Chaining is typically "Full Chain". (if your defaults are "standard" the default method is "Full Chain". If you are using Custom Defaults, just make sure you are in "Full Chain" mode.)

When you "select" a chain at the beginning of creating a 2D Contour, you "click near the endpoint, of an entity that you want to "start at". If the chain is "correct", in other words, you have "no overlapping or intersecting entities", then you will get a Single, Green Arrow. This is because the 2D Chaining Full Chain method found "no issue" with your Chain. The idea here is that the chain will start "where you clicked", and there is no "red" showing. If the arrow "jumps" somewhere else, then; there is an issue with your Chain. Instead of starting "near the endpoint" of the entity you clicked on, what will happen is Mastercam will show a "Green/Red" arrow, at the problem area of the chain.

So that is where you begin your hunt for "overlaps".

It is always possible that you have "perfect chain", and this is a bug in the software, but it is likely that there is an actual issue with the geometry. We have to rule that out first.

 

Another trick you can do is use the "C-Hook" "Find Overlap". This is used on 2D chains to check for "overlapping entities". This is where you have say "2 lines", that start at the same "start point, but have different lengths. This is a hard problem to solve, because these are not "duplicate entities".

When you run "Find Overlap" (Alt + C, on your keyboard), you select (window) the geometry, then press "enter". A dialog will appear, and you can use "Previous" or "Next" to cycle through the overlaps. Just press "Cleanup", and it will be default, delete all of the "Shortest" entities. from the Chain. You can then go and look for "gaps" in the chain.

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To attach a file, so we can help:

  1. Save the Mastercam File.
  2. With your web browser window, open to Emastercam, go to "this thread".
  3. Type in the "Reply box", "Here is the file."
  4. In the "Reply box", where you type in responses to this thread, look near the bottom of the reply window.
  5. There is a "Paperclip" icon, and some text that says "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..."
  6. The "choose files..." button is what you want to press. When you press it, a dialog box will pop-up.
  7. This will be a "file explorer" window, and you will browse to the location of the Mastercam File on your PC, and select it.
  8. Just note that the maximum File Size is just under 10 Mb.
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1 hour ago, TERRYH said:

Not taken as a smart aleck JP but that's all we use when it comes to roughing stuff it was how they did it 6-7 years ago when I started programming and I just know how to do what they taught me to do it.

Check out Surface High Speed, much better than the legacy toolpaths for this sort of thing. Even if you don't use it this time you will find it gives much better toolpath in these situations. You should be able to use the same geometry, just a few minutes of "playing" and you should get the hang of it........although containment chain rules still apply.

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3 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

 You should be able to use the same geometry, just a few minutes of "playing" and you should get the hang of it........although containment chain rules still apply.

Expect if you want them to start from the outside you must make the boundary 125% larger than the tool diameter to get the cuts to start on the outside of the part.

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thanks guys I tried to attach the file but it was to large. will try some of the other selections and see if it helps. I was able to do a contour program cutting the OD to size using that same chain, and I was able to a surface finish scallop using it to. Just not the surface rough pocket. 

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What I did was created it right on the OD of the part and then projected it up to a plane above the part so I could make a solid with the cast stock on it, so I could do a rest  roughing program. I analyzed the chain before I projected it and after and there was no break  and it actually worked for the other programs like I said just not the surface rough pocket. And this is something we have done 1000's of times before. I attached a pic of the actual part, the one above is just a skin we use to keep the tools out of all the pockets. I would have though if I projected it up with the correct WCS active it should have been flat and perpendicular to the part.  

stripper.PNG

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On 12/11/2017 at 2:34 PM, TERRYH said:

It kind of makes me feel like a fool coming on here asking for help because we've never been up to date with newest versions, and because of how we do stuff.

I know exactly how you feel brother. I'm a self taught, stuck-with-X7, Mastercam user with the exception of help from the emasterminds at emastercam. My company has money for everything except what it takes to actually make the product. I'm close to retirement so changing jobs is out of the question. If I did change jobs, they would probably ask me "I thought you knew how to use Mastercam?" So I do feel like a fool sometimes with my questions because I feel like Forrest Gump and someone is asking, "Are you stupid or something?" Also, the only reason I have Mastercam in the first place is because a customer came through and told them our shop looked like it was from the 60's.

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Our owner has recently started looking at other software's and Tebis is one of the main ones and they had salesmen come in and a guy from Germany to evaluate our process and our CNC dept. to tell us where we can improve, and of course the salesman made them sound like the magic do all save all way to go, to be able to get as much "free run time" possible and as little spindle down time possible. I have not been involved in any of the meetings yet, but in talking to my boss I told him we could do more and be more efficient if they would just actually train us on what we have instead of continuing to use it like it was done 10-15 years ago.  They had a guy in here yesterday from a tool company about a tool setter and tool holders and he ask them what software we use currently and they told him Mastercam and Delcams power shape power mill , and he was telling them how good MC was and how we needed to be up to date and trained to use it to it full potential, so who knows what direction they will go either way they do need to do some serious training.    

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2 hours ago, TERRYH said:

Our owner has recently started looking at other software's and Tebis is one of the main ones and they had salesmen come in and a guy from Germany to evaluate our process and our CNC dept. to tell us where we can improve, and of course the salesman made them sound like the magic do all save all way to go, to be able to get as much "free run time" possible and as little spindle down time possible. I have not been involved in any of the meetings yet, but in talking to my boss I told him we could do more and be more efficient if they would just actually train us on what we have instead of continuing to use it like it was done 10-15 years ago.  They had a guy in here yesterday from a tool company about a tool setter and tool holders and he ask them what software we use currently and they told him Mastercam and Delcams power shape power mill , and he was telling them how good MC was and how we needed to be up to date and trained to use it to it full potential, so who knows what direction they will go either way they do need to do some serious training.    

Terry good luck and hopefully the owners listen....sadly though in so many shops like the one you're in, I have seen too many times....they know they need to get better to make money and survive but once they start to see the real dollars that it takes, most times they throw nothing at it and come up with grandiose ideas that do not ever work....lip service....

Hopefully you can find a different result.

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2 hours ago, TERRYH said:

Our owner has recently started looking at other software's and Tebis is one of the main ones and they had salesmen come in and a guy from Germany to evaluate our process and our CNC dept. to tell us where we can improve, and of course the salesman made them sound like the magic do all save all way to go, to be able to get as much "free run time" possible and as little spindle down time possible. I have not been involved in any of the meetings yet, but in talking to my boss I told him we could do more and be more efficient if they would just actually train us on what we have instead of continuing to use it like it was done 10-15 years ago.  They had a guy in here yesterday from a tool company about a tool setter and tool holders and he ask them what software we use currently and they told him Mastercam and Delcams power shape power mill , and he was telling them how good MC was and how we needed to be up to date and trained to use it to it full potential, so who knows what direction they will go either way they do need to do some serious training.    

Mastercam's high speed toolpaths can achieve remarkable gains in cycle time and tool life.

The place I work at was using V9 and PencilCam when I started working here 2007.

There are jobs I reduced from 140 hour cycle times and $10K in inserts to 30 hours and 1 box of Sandvik rounds using MC high speed paths.

Another that used Ø2" corncobs ran 120  hours and 2 or three busted $800 endmills per part

The roughing on this job is now under 10 hours and uses half a box of inserts in a Mitshbishi AJX high speed cutter.

Your boss is leaving a cr@p ton of $$$ on the table.

If I were you I'd get my Mastercam dealer on the phone, tell him his account was in jeopardy and to get his butt out there and

show you how to use the software you already own. 

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gcode I agree with what you said, if they would just train us on what we currently have we could do so much more in a more efficient way, to me I think we are already doing pretty good we are 3 full time and 1 part time guy feeding 6 large 3-axis machines 2 large 5-axis machines and 2 smaller machines on 2 shifts and keeping them running, do we have room for improvement yes, but we are not given time to change stuff, and because of their lack of properly training us hurts, we do not need new software to improve anything. 

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