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How do you deal with Op Defaults?


huskermcdoogle
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I feel like this is something that I could improve upon greatly.  I feel like I have far too much variation in the way that I apply most paths, that if I settled on a "default" I would be changing most of it anyway.  Mind you this is just for one machine, but being a head/head router with a rotary table, the applications are pretty vast.  I pretty much only use morph, parallel, contour, 2D high speed (dynamic and area), circle mill, and drill.

I typically just pound out a rough program, then spend a ridiculous amount of time adjusting speeds and feeds, AICC values, other Misc Ints/Reals, and linking parameters.  Seems to take just about as long to get a program ready for posting adjusting the above as it did for me to generate all the paths/processes necessary to create the part.  These tweaks make a huge difference in the run time of the parts.  Sometimes saving 30% or more in cycle time, and given that usually nothing runs over 25 minutes by the time I am done, that is pretty significant.

Primarily I use the machine in two configurations, HH and HT, and never really mix the two.  OP10 is usually H/H and OP20 is H/T.

Anyway, how do you guys combat this when you are getting a new program up and running?

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^ That's what I was going to suggest.  If there's a large variety of things, you'd be better served to make a file with all of the toolpaths set up the way you like and then choose to import an operation from that file.  The import dialog will show groups and such, so name them descriptively.  That way when you choose to import one from your "morph" templates, you have most combinations already setup. 

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8 minutes ago, Aaron Eberhard - CNC Software said:

^ That's what I was going to suggest.  If there's a large variety of things, you'd be better served to make a file with all of the toolpaths set up the way you like and then choose to import an operation from that file.

That file is called an operations library. ;) :lol:

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I want to pull the rest of my hair out when I see "experienced" programmers populating one by one all the fields in toolpath manager even for the simplest operations over and over again....

Setting up default operations and tool libraries  should be the first thing ANY programmer should start with.

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1 minute ago, Mark @ PPG said:

I want to pull the rest of my hair out when I see "experienced" programmers populating one by one all the fields in toolpath manager even for the simplest operations over and over again....

Setting up default operations and tool libraries  should be the first thing ANY programmer should start with.

Lest we forget we're dealing with a new crop of 'grammers that just want to point & click....the software should do everything

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On 3/14/2018 at 10:01 AM, JParis said:

Lest we forget we're dealing with a new crop of 'grammers that just want to point & click....the software should do everything

That would be I...
My expectation was that it should be able to competently do everything, and then the experience comes in and cleans it up reducing  file size, time etc.

Though once I found out I could setup defaults, that was one of the first things I did for everything I could ever imagine myself doing.

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Exported toolpaths is how I do it as well. Once I've got a path set up to run efficiently, and it's something I believe I will find useful later, I export it, to a folder named "Exported Toolpaths". I name it as descriptively as possible (cause I'm old and forgetful).

I have a couple of them that I got from you, husker. From when you were helping me get familiar with the Module Works paths. Thanks again for that, it was some of the best guidance I've gotten on that. :respect:

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40 minutes ago, So not a Guru said:

I have a couple of them that I got from you, husker. From when you were helping me get familiar with the Module Works paths. Thanks again for that, it was some of the best guidance I've gotten on that. :respect:

Well thanks Zeke!  Sadly though I think I forgot all about what I helped you with...  Glad that went to good use.

I suppose it's time to start building a good operation library.  God knows I do the same xxxx over and over again.  I had in the past tried to get my defaults setup well, but it seems just as soon as it gets the way I like it, the file gets corrupted and I have to start over... 

Creating a good operation library I think will be the way to go.  Now if only my lack of organizational skills could muster up a good structure to file it all away in a way that I will know how to dig through it.

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2 hours ago, huskermcdoogle said:

I suppose it's time to start building a good operation library.  God knows I do the same xxxx over and over again.  I had in the past tried to get my defaults setup well, but it seems just as soon as it gets the way I like it, the file gets corrupted and I have to start over... 

I spent three months building a tool library that went corrupt on me.  There wasn't a very good backup procedure in place here at the time so all of that work down the toilet.  It took me a while to even consider putting time in to one again after that. 

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I keep saying I will write a scheduled task batch file to auto copy out key config files for mastercam once per week or something like that, and put them into a backup file structure.  In reality it wouldn't take up much space.  Been saying that for about 5 years, maybe one of these days I will do it.

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On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 1:59 PM, Mark @ PPG said:

I want to pull the rest of my hair out when I see "experienced" programmers populating one by one all the fields in toolpath manager even for the simplest operations over and over again....

Setting up default operations and tool libraries  should be the first thing ANY programmer should start with.

How about people with 30+ years who always program (for instance) a facemill with a default of F1000 and then d!ck about on the machine upping it to F5000 when "proving out"...

Grrrrrrrr...

Template files for me all the way, and keep them on the network available for all to ignore.

Grrrrrrrr...

 

Ohh, did I say Grrrrrrr.....

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So, this may sound kind of stupid, but when we say ops library, we create those when we export toolpaths to a *.mcam-opertations file correct? 

I have some programming jobs coming up that I need to start getting organized and feel it's time to start building a decent library.  I have a good idea of what I have done in the past and know where to go dig some well refined operations up. 

Anyway, in the spirit of using operations libraries, as I feel template files would be too much work to keep organized most of the time.  I figure I will layout some questions to build  ground rules. 

Export Operations:

Do you select disable duplicate tool checking?

Do you export the operations geometry?

Importing Operations:

Do you usually Import Geometry?

What about Assigning Current Tool and Construction planes?  Does this checkbox located the imported geometry as well?

Do you Disable Duplicate tool checking, or allow it to do it's thing?

General Library Management:

If you want to edit an ops library operation, do you just open it like a normal file?

 

Ultimately, I am the only one doing any programming for us right now, but eventually I will have to enlist some help, the more I do things to help me at the moment, the more it will help any future programmers.  I should have done this ages ago, but you know how it is sometimes.  I have used and done some operation exporting and importing in the past, but typically only for things that are literally a copy and paste.  I have had varied success, and typically change a bunch of stuff anyway, as I have learned new things, or become more confident with the tooling or type of material I am cutting.  This is where editing an ops library will come into play as if I know there is something I want to change, I will edit them before importing, so it is done for the next time, or hopefully you can copy and paste and create a derived operation for something slightly different.

Anyway, thanks in advance.

 

Husker

 

P.S. - Yes I am ashamed I have not done this sooner.  But I have a bad habit of never being able to settle into a set way of doing things as it is never really good enough, and I constantly search for faster, cheaper, or easier ways of cutting production parts at the machine.  One piece or a thousand pieces, every programming job is an opportunity to try something new and see if something works out, and I have created some pretty awesome toolpaths over the last four years, all incrementally getting better.  But, sadly programming efficiency (not toolpath efficiency) has never really been high on my list of priorities, and for the last year, it seems I can't keep up, and I get further and further behind.  Right now toolpath efficiency is less important than just having something finished in hand, and the boss man says that, and then when its in hand, wonders why it's run time is 30% longer than it should be, and wants the next job done yesterday.....(but you said "get it done, I don't care about the run time", :wacko:)

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2 hours ago, huskermcdoogle said:

So, this may sound kind of stupid, but when we say ops library, we create those when we export toolpaths to a *.mcam-opertations file correct? 

Yes. I'll take your word for it on the exact name since I'm still using X9 and mine is called *.opeations-9

Export Operations:

Do you select disable duplicate tool checking?

No. Not saying that this is the way to go, just how I do it.

Do you export the operations geometry?

No.

Importing Operations:

Do you usually Import Geometry?

No.

What about Assigning Current Tool and Construction planes?

Checked. All of my ops in my library are saved in TOP. If I'm in a WCS other than top and this box isn't checked, the ops will come in assigned to TOP and I'll have to edit them all. My normal procedure is to import all ops after I'm already in my custom WCS...therefore this setting will correctly set the WCS on import. I use "A Form Filler" (<--see my sig) to check this box every time I import

Does this checkbox located the imported geometry as well?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Do you Disable Duplicate tool checking, or allow it to do it's thing?

I do not disable it. You'll possibly end end up with duplicate tools (obviously) but I like to deal with those on a case by case basis.

General Library Management:

If you want to edit an ops library operation, do you just open it like a normal file?

There are a few different ways to edit it, but the one I use is...

From the Toolpath Manager, Machine Group Properties -->Files-->Click the "!" next to your ops file and make your edits. When you're done and you OK out of it, the library will automatically be saved. Check the file date/time if you wish to confirm.

 

 

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I was going to make a new thread but this seems similar enough to what I have to ask.  Is there a simple way to change the default linking parameters.  Someone at my work recently had a bad crash and my boss asked me to make my G43 line of code always be at Z3. so I was hoping there is a quick and easy way to set that as default? I noticed if you use clearance  it posts on my tool offset measure line. So I just want to know where I edit the default startup so that every kind of operations has a clearance of 3. Ill make sure to make it's larger when necessary i.e. 4th axis or tall clamps. Thanks

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1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

I was going to make a new thread but this seems similar enough to what I have to ask.  Is there a simple way to change the default linking parameters.  Someone at my work recently had a bad crash and my boss asked me to make my G43 line of code always be at Z3. so I was hoping there is a quick and easy way to set that as default? I noticed if you use clearance  it posts on my tool offset measure line. So I just want to know where I edit the default startup so that every kind of operations has a clearance of 3. Ill make sure to make it's larger when necessary i.e. 4th axis or tall clamps. Thanks

Go to the op defaults. Edit and select all, edit common parameters, set your linking height

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