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Tsudakoma rotary axis


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Just wondering if anyone here has any experience with putting/using a Tsudakoma rotary on a horizontal mill for a 5th axis and your opinion on it?

I'd take any experiences with Tsudakoma rotaries in general as well, regardless of the machine it's on as well.

 

Thanks.

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I just got done integrating a Tsudakoma 4th Axis into a Mazak Mill with a M-32 Control. The build quality was great.

We bought an "externally controlled" table. We bought it with the TPC-Jr. Controller. The controller comes pre-wired to accept an M-code activated input signal to tell the box "rotate the Rotary". You use the control box to program the actual index angles.

All things considered, this solution was about $24K, including installation. That is about half the cost of what Mazak quoted us to install an "integrated" 4th axis. The benefit to us was a cheaper cost. The detriment is that we can't "directly control" the 4th Axis from the NC Code. This will limit us to "indexing only", although there are some options on the TPC-Jr control that would let us perform some "semi-continuous" machining, if we were so inclined. It just happens that we only need indexing for the job we are running on this machine, which is a long term production contract.

We had the installation done by CNC Engineering, and they did a great job. I'm having them quote a project currently to replace our old Renishaw mechanically coupled probes with newer radio frequency units.

The Tsudakoma rotary tables can be "direct wired" into your control as well, rather than the OEM unit, depending on your control model. If you have the option, I would recommend this route, rather than the separate control box, but both have their advantages...

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Thanks for the info @Colin Gilchrist. We were quoted $60,000 for the rotary, installation and integration to one of our Akari Seiki horizontal mills from CNC Systems. I would assume this is a true integration without the need for external controller. The sales guy put it as a 4+1 in an email, but he explained it to my boss verbally that we would be able to program any of 3 of the 5 axis's simultaneously which I assume to mean I can control the X,Y and the C together as an example.

We were quoted by another company previously to replace the 4th axis on one of our vertical mills with a Tsudakoma unit because they've had so many problems with the factory units with the way they are built.

Since this was the 2nd time we'd been quoted a Tsudakoma unit I wanted to get some feedback on them.

Thanks for the info guys.

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Tsudakoma rotary's have always treated me well.

I only have experience mounting a Haas rotary on horizontal 4th. it opened doors for us but also made a huge window of opportunity for crashes.

ours was poor man setup with limit switch at a certain z position rotated c to the next position, what could possibly go wrong, lol

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2 hours ago, BBprecise said:

 

I'd take any experiences with Tsudakoma rotaries in general as well, regardless of the machine it's on as well.

 

Thanks.

We have 2 Koma rotary tables. Our oldest is a true 4th axis (Can't remember the model #) on an Okuma Genos M560v. It paid for itself in the 1st month, considering how we were doing things prior to having it.

Our other is a 5 axis TWA-160 on anoter Okuma Genos M560v 3xis vmc. This wasn't cheap (about $60k when all said and done), but I wouldn't buy any other brand.

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We use Tsudakoma Rotary on all our Okuma mill, the only problem is the cables connectors that are not waterproof at 100% and after a few years the collant corrode the little wires inside. 

but mechanically, i don't remember to had a single problem over 20 years 

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16 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

I just got done integrating a Tsudakoma 4th Axis into a Mazak Mill with a M-32 Control. The build quality was great.

We bought an "externally controlled" table. We bought it with the TPC-Jr. Controller. The controller comes pre-wired to accept an M-code activated input signal to tell the box "rotate the Rotary". You use the control box to program the actual index angles.

All things considered, this solution was about $24K, including installation. That is about half the cost of what Mazak quoted us to install an "integrated" 4th axis. The benefit to us was a cheaper cost. The detriment is that we can't "directly control" the 4th Axis from the NC Code. This will limit us to "indexing only", although there are some options on the TPC-Jr control that would let us perform some "semi-continuous" machining, if we were so inclined. It just happens that we only need indexing for the job we are running on this machine, which is a long term production contract.

We had the installation done by CNC Engineering, and they did a great job. I'm having them quote a project currently to replace our old Renishaw mechanically coupled probes with newer radio frequency units.

The Tsudakoma rotary tables can be "direct wired" into your control as well, rather than the OEM unit, depending on your control model. If you have the option, I would recommend this route, rather than the separate control box, but both have their advantages...

I'm not sure about Mazak but I know in Okuma or Fanuc controls you can send the angle command to the TPC-Jr using RS232 (DPRINT or PUT/WRITE). This makes the TPC-Jr act as a slave and you do not need to program it or be concerned over mid-program restarts. 

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Thanks for all of the information guys. I definitely feel better about using Tsudakoma now. I had never heard of them before the quote we got for our vertical mill and then when CNC quoted using them as well I wanted to get some real info that I can trust.

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7 minutes ago, YoDoug® said:

I'm not sure about Mazak but I know in Okuma or Fanuc controls you can send the angle command to the TPC-Jr using RS232 (DPRINT or PUT/WRITE). This makes the TPC-Jr act as a slave and you do not need to program it or be concerned over mid-program restarts. 

We're looking at getting a KME tombstone for another horizontal mill as well and that is how their system works. I still prefer direct control, but it's better then the HAAS setup from what I can see anyway.

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1 hour ago, BBprecise said:

We're looking at getting a KME tombstone for another horizontal mill as well and that is how their system works. I still prefer direct control, but it's better then the HAAS setup from what I can see anyway.

Even the Haas boxes can do that (from what I've seen)

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13 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Even the Haas boxes can do that (from what I've seen)

Maybe, but from what I've seen HAAS just sends out an M21 (maybe M11?) to the control box and the controller rotates the indexer to the next angle specified by the program in the controller. Maybe I has this wrong, I have no experience with HAAS and the used one we just bought hasn't been powered up yet for me to start digging around in it. Time will tell.

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46 minutes ago, BBprecise said:

Maybe, but from what I've seen HAAS just sends out an M21 (maybe M11?) to the control box and the controller rotates the indexer to the next angle specified by the program in the controller. Maybe I has this wrong, I have no experience with HAAS and the used one we just bought hasn't been powered up yet for me to start digging around in it. Time will tell.

Does it have an RS232 port on the back?

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20 hours ago, BBprecise said:

Just wondering if anyone here has any experience with putting/using a Tsudakoma rotary on a horizontal mill for a 5th axis and your opinion on it?

I'd take any experiences with Tsudakoma rotaries in general as well, regardless of the machine it's on as well.

 

Thanks.

We have this setup on 2 new NHX5000 machines (2 pallets per machine). Works quite well.

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2 hours ago, YoDoug® said:

I'm not sure about Mazak but I know in Okuma or Fanuc controls you can send the angle command to the TPC-Jr using RS232 (DPRINT or PUT/WRITE). This makes the TPC-Jr act as a slave and you do not need to program it or be concerned over mid-program restarts. 

That's also good advice Doug, I forgot to mention that capability. 

This is an option on the Mazak as well, but our limitation is this controller is mid-80's, and was only wired with a single I/O channel. Some machines have both a 'Tape' port, and a 'DNC' port. Ours is only wired for the 'Tape' channel, and we use that channel for our DNC system. For what we are using this for, I couldn't justify the extra cost to make this happen.

This machine is used to drill mating holes for a helicopter drive shaft. We drill two rows of staggered holes on one end, and repeat it again on the other end. We drill, ream, and deburr 24 holes. That's it. Over, and over, and... well, you know.

Occasionally we will load a small job that fits in between the live center and the rotary, but this machine is idle 80% of the time anyway. Don't get me started on all the weird decisions this place makes. Many of the issues are due to our wonderful machinists union. C'est la vie. 

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46 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Does it have an RS232 port on the back?

The control box has 2 (up and down), but I was thinking the machine only has one. Not 100% sure on that though. I have a sample program from the previous owner for the collet indexer that came with machine and it only outputs the single M code with no other information.

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