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Mill/Turn machine suggestions


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We are considering getting a Mill/Turn. We don't need high precision, most of our stuff is in the +/- 0.005" range. We do aircraft work, mostly aluminum, but enough 304 & PH stainless to be considered significant.

Can anyone offer any suggestions and experience with particular brands or models?

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3 hours ago, So not a Guru said:

I would think Y-axis. I'm unfamiliar with B-axes on a lathe, I've been, mostly, a mill guy, in the CNC world,

Will you ever need to drill angled holes, or run a live tool at anything other than 0 or 90 degrees? If so, you'll want a MT with a B axis head.

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26 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Don't forget the Doosan Puma MX, they may not be a major player, but should be more affordable and meet your described tolerances.

I would look to the SMX series since it is True Y axis and not a Virtual Y axis. Yes more money, but end of the day a True Y axis pays for itself in spades.

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20 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Ron, can you elaborate on this?

Is it mostly due to the fact that you have a less limited travel, as well as it is easier to predict travel issues?

That pretty much sums it up. You have to think a lot differently when using a virtual Y axis Mill/Turn verses a True Y axis machine. They seem to have the same travels listed, but trust me when you need to get some nice Y movements with a large face mill or such and you cannot that is when you realize the Virtual Y axis limits. Doing small easy parts then okay, but always machine is never big enough and never has enough travel so if anyone is going to make this decision it is best to step up and look at all aspects for doing Mill/Turn work.

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25 minutes ago, C^Millman said:

I would look to the SMX series since it is True Y axis and not a Virtual Y axis. Yes more money, but end of the day a True Y axis pays for itself in spades.

I would put up a serious fight to never get a virtual Y axis again. When they go out, good luck getting them dialed back in. We have an Integrex i-300 that sucks, because the drives aren't tuned properly, and we can't get it to interpolate a "round" hole with an endmill. The thing is basically junk now for any milling work, besides drilling, or boring with a boring tool. I can't even get a drill to dial in closer than .003 TIR.

Mazak is basically Japanese for "Haas". They are good budget machines, but I'd never buy one with my own money.

For my money, I'd buy an Okuma or a Mori. WFL's are sweeeeet, but then you're basically stuck with getting a Siemens 840D control. If you know the control, they are limitless. They are also monstrously complex, and you could spend a lifetime learning how they work...

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I would rather gouge out my eyes than get a virtual Y millturn. :D

That being said,  Nakamura NTRX, Okuma Multus U3000 would be the first two on my list. Mazak has a tone of experience in this area but I have never ran one of their machines.

 

Mike 

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17 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

but then you're basically stuck with getting a Siemens 840D control.

I have only ran one 840D control, and while I have been a Fanuc guy through and through almost my entire professional career, I would take a well optioned 840D over the Fanuc any day on a complex machine.  The experience I had was to transcribe a few macro's to siemens, after I got a hang of the syntax, it was far easier to accomplish the same task in their language than it was in Fanucese.  Named variables being the most memorable experience, calculation execution time was also far better.

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22 hours ago, huskermcdoogle said:

I have only ran one 840D control, and while I have been a Fanuc guy through and through almost my entire professional career, I would take a well optioned 840D over the Fanuc any day on a complex machine.  The experience I had was to transcribe a few macro's to siemens, after I got a hang of the syntax, it was far easier to accomplish the same task in their language than it was in Fanucese.  Named variables being the most memorable experience, calculation execution time was also far better.

Boom, another 840D guy.  You here that CNCAPPSGUY? :lol:

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I will be one to praise the benefits of a true Y axis, however some of the needs will vary based on your parts. For example, We are getting ready to buy a B axis millturn. Most of our parts are currently run in compound Y axis machine that I have never used the Y axis on. Everything is done is C-X contouring mode. For us the need for a B axis millturn is about having more tools setup and more clearance between the chuck and tools. 

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14 minutes ago, YoDoug® said:

I will be one to praise the benefits of a true Y axis, however some of the needs will vary based on your parts. For example, We are getting ready to buy a B axis millturn. Most of our parts are currently run in compound Y axis machine that I have never used the Y axis on. Everything is done is C-X contouring mode. For us the need for a B axis millturn is about having more tools setup and more clearance between the chuck and tools. 

Doug that is the major issue I have with ant Stick machine not enough tools or parts too complex to efficiently and effectively machine them. Doing simple turn and burn parts then yes Stick Compound(Virtual Y Axis) machines have their place, but simple turn and burn parts are not what I normally run into or do a majority of our customers. The Swiss machines dominate that place and when you step up past parts that a Swiss can't do then you are competing against low dollar per hour places running their shops at $25/hr to $35/hr. They have 20 machines all paid off and running 10K to 1 million parts at a time of their machines. They are looking at profits at 1/4 to 1/2 cent per part and happy getting that monthly for years to come on some nice LTA stuff. 

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