Fanuc G68.2 with rigid tapping

[crazy^millman]

1 minute ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Too funny.  Why people fight pitch for tapping is so far beyond my comprehension I just cease to care.

How I learned to program on Mazak's back in the early 90's and made perfect sense to me and has stuck with me ever sense. Change the RPM's all day long and never once have to worry about changing the feedrate.

[g huns]

1 minute ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Too funny.  Why people fight pitch for tapping is so far beyond my comprehension I just cease to care.

It really doesn't matter to me. It's the whining from the operators I'm adverse to.

If I had my way, we wouldn't rigid tap ANYTHING. We'd thread mill every hole that requires a thread. If we can't reach it, or it's too small, let a toolmaker hand tap the phuker.

[huskermcdoogle]

Just now, g huns said:

It really doesn't matter to me. It's the whining from the operators I'm adverse to.

I think most true programmers are willing to use pitch.  It's the operators deciding they don't like G95 aspect of it that is frustrating.

[MIL-TFP-41]

A little off topic....but tapping in IPR (G95) is an option on a Mori NHX. The local application guy even told me he never heard of people tapping in IPR. Needless to say he gets no phone calls for assistance from us.

[gcode]

34 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

It's the operators deciding they don't like G95 aspect of it that is frustrating.

things get ugly quick when an operator (or the post) forgets the G94 after using G95

most machines are smart enough to tell you "I can't go that fast" when they get a G95 F100. because someone forgot to switch back to G94

It can get very traumatic when you have a machine dumb enough to try G95 F100.

 

[g huns]

32 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

...It's the operators deciding they don't like G95 aspect of it that is frustrating.

It's honestly the least of our worries around here.

Frustrating is watching an operator hand change tools on a machine with a perfectly good tool changer. Or stopping a machine mid program cause it's quittin time and the machine cannot run without the operator standing and watching it.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^LoL!

Sounds like you need to wind up the arse kicking machine and get a few to jump on it!

[g huns]

Just now, Newbeeee™ said:

^^^LoL!

Sounds like you need to wind up the arse kicking machine and get a few to jump on it!

Operators don't work for me, I am NOT their boss, and they are quick to tell me so.

You shoulda heard the weeping and gnashing of teeth when I told all my programmers to start posting programs with real speeds and feeds, instead of S0 F0. Which the operators used to fill in with whatever numbers they felt like that day.

And no, that was not in 1981. It was 2 years ago.

 

[Newbeeee™]

1 hour ago, g huns said:

Operators don't work for me, I am NOT their boss, and they are quick to tell me so.

You shoulda heard the weeping and gnashing of teeth when I told all my programmers to start posting programs with real speeds and feeds, instead of S0 F0. Which the operators used to fill in with whatever numbers they felt like that day.

And no, that was not in 1981. It was 2 years ago.

 

When I see things like this I do wonder, but kudos for staying in business. You must be doing something right!

[Colin Gilchrist]

1 hour ago, g huns said:

Operators don't work for me, I am NOT their boss, and they are quick to tell me so.

You shoulda heard the weeping and gnashing of teeth when I told all my programmers to start posting programs with real speeds and feeds, instead of S0 F0. Which the operators used to fill in with whatever numbers they felt like that day.

And no, that was not in 1981. It was 2 years ago.

 

That is such a sad truth in many shops. And those same operators complain when their company can't stay competitive, and they get laid off, and the machines get shipped abroad. I swear that in some shops, they have a culture that is simply allergic to hard work. I can't stand being unproductive during the day. I'd much rather be busy than bored. Life is far to short to not treat time like the precious gift it is.

[mkd]

3 hours ago, gcode said:

things get ugly quick when an operator (or the post) forgets the G94 after using G95

or when an okuma mill turn changes tools and reverts back to machine default G95...and your post writer keeps forgetting to hard code it after every toolchange...

[Leon82]

3 hours ago, gcode said:

things get ugly quick when an operator (or the post) forgets the G94 after using G95

most machines are smart enough to tell you "I can't go that fast" when they get a G95 F100. because someone forgot to switch back to G94

It can get very traumatic when you have a machine dumb enough to try G95 F100.

 

I don't think a funuc  will let you cancel the cycle until you switch back to g94.

Or maybe it's the other way around 

[huskermcdoogle]

58 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

And those same operators complain when their company can't stay competitive, and they get laid off, and the machines get shipped abroad. I swear that in some shops, they have a culture that is simply allergic to hard work.

Anything to continue hitting the easy button.  I have been in situations before where I was hired to fix the culture.  Example, make this part run through without operator intervention.  They told me I had the keys to the kingdom to do whatever needed doing.  Next thing I know I am getting complaints from the operators management that the machine is throwing chips into the operator station (which shouldn't be occupied, but is by a certain lazy operator who claims he has to be there)  At this point the process was 50% faster and could just about make it through 4-5 parts without making adjustments (entire shift).  They ended up going back to the old method until I could figure out how to control the chips.  The unfortunate reality was the old process was just as bad as mine, I just threw more slightly hotter chips in a shorter amount of time...  The only good thing that came of it was they fired the operator when he refused to work after it was proven there was no need for him at the operator station other than selecting the program and pressing cycle smash.

[huskermcdoogle]

5 minutes ago, mkd said:

or when an okuma mill turn changes tools and reverts back to machine default G95

I find machine default settings to be very helpful in the tool change macro.  I have always programmed with the assumption that you can't make any assumptions on modal codes.  Therefore, I almost always set things up in the post to cancel anything that might apply at every tool change, and set every required modal code on startup of each tool.

 

8 minutes ago, Leon82 said:

I don't think a funuc  will let you cancel the cycle until you switch back to g94.

Or maybe it's the other way around 

I don't recall this ever being a feature, but never tried, I would imagine once you start a drill cycle it won't let you change.  That aside, you rarely have a need to switch from ipr to ipm without doing a tool change first....

[So not a Guru]

2 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

That is such a sad truth in many shops. And those same operators complain when their company can't stay competitive, and they get laid off, and the machines get shipped abroad. I swear that in some shops, they have a culture that is simply allergic to hard work.

Sadly, too true. Mike Rowe did a TED talk where he talked about a culture of war against work, in America.

 

[g huns]

Our operators aren't really adverse to work, it's change the fight tooth and nail. 

We run our 5X Roeders lights out and balls to the wall. They never had a chance to run it the old way because I refused to program it the old way. When I ask why we can't run other machines in a similar fashion, the excuses go on for days.

I did convince one today to actually turn the rapid from 50 to 100% on one of the new Enshus. The program had already been successfully ran on one block, so why not crank it up and let her tip on #2? Holy chit those things are fast.

[gcode]

We have some old Mitsubishi HMBs  here that do rigid tapping

They do require

M29 S***  and pitch for a tapping feed rate

they do no require, G94/G95, in fact using these codes can cause trouble.

I'm thinking the G94/G95 switch is built into the M29 S*** macro

[Ewood42]

21 hours ago, huskermcdoogle said:

I think most true programmers are willing to use pitch.  It's the operators deciding they don't like G95 aspect of it that is frustrating.

I tried out using pitch because metric taps the feeds are screwy, and using a multiple of pitch as spindle speed is limiting...

First time it went out, I went and explained to the operator just what was going on. He nodded, and smiled, then as soon as I walked away changed the feed rate to "something that made more sense". Promptly broke several taps (not just one) then went crying to the foreman about how my program was effed up.

[huskermcdoogle]

1 minute ago, Ewood42 said:

First time it went out, I went and explained to the operator just what was going on. He nodded, and smiled, then as soon as I walked away changed the feed rate to "something that made more sense". Promptly broke several taps (not just one) then went crying to the foreman about how my program was effed up.

I would have had him fired for changing my program.

[Ewood42]

9 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

I would have had him fired for changing my program.

I was in the same boat as ghuns... I was not the supervisor, and the operator had been with the company 10 years longer than I had been. So, even though I went and printed out my original code, saved back his edits, highlighted the differences, and brought it up at the floor meeting when he tried to throw me under the bus, all I got were blank stares from the supervisors. Then I just stopped getting invited to the production meetings after that.

[g huns]

Just now, Ewood42 said:

...Then I just stopped getting invited to the production meetings after that.

That's all you have to do?

[gcode]

5 minutes ago, Ewood42 said:

Then I just stopped getting invited to the production meetings after that

that's a good thing

[Ewood42]

Just now, gcode said:

that's a good thing

Yes and no. That same operator constantly screwed with the programs up front, and every time he scrapped a part, it was a program issue. Yep, sure was, but he never actually ran my code without screwing with it.

Place was a cluster f anyway. Took a week off with FMLA for my kids birth shortly before I was laid off, and got several dozen calls while in the hospital asking when I was coming back, then an attendance write up when I came back to work the following week. Wouldn't work there for triple what I was being paid after that bs.

[huskermcdoogle]

32 minutes ago, Ewood42 said:

Place was a cluster f anyway.

Sounds like people felt their jobs were threatened by common sense and a little intelligence.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

3 hours ago, huskermcdoogle said:

I would have had him fired for changing my program.

At my last job my boss was in the habit of changing my programs without telling me, and forbade me from talking to the operators or watching the machines to see how programs were doing.  They're not in business anymore.