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2019 Flowline Lillipop Alarm


Mark VIII
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Yes, non-cutting geometry.  That message appears when you use a "reduced neck shank" on a lollipop mill in a toolpath that supports undercutting (finish/contour, rgh/pocket, ...).  The undercut detection code doesn't support that neck shape.  It will allow the tool to undercut but, perhaps, not undercut as far as it really can.

You won't get this message with a "tapered shank" or "straight shank".

I'll see what I can do to clarify that warning message.  (Thanks!)

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17 minutes ago, Mark VIII said:

The real problem is that there seems to no other way to describe your lollipop. If you put in a straight relief instead of a taper, tool editor alarms out.

Lollipop.thumb.png.453f3545cee138ca48744dbb4bcff3fb.png

Perhaps I don't understand the problem. Is this should we are talking about?

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13 hours ago, Mark VIII said:

When I do that it says "shank diameter is too large for tool diameter. The tool is a 3mm lollipop cut from a 1/8 shaft.

I've seen this problem before. So what's happening is the shank size is larger then the cutting diameter. This is not allowed for some reason. Try setting your shank diameter to 3mm also. Note on this that it only won't allow straight shank tools like this, tapered tools are fine to describe with larger shanks.

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13 hours ago, gcode said:

What version are you running

I was able to build this tool exactly as shown in your screen shot in MC2019

 

The version that doesn't work. 2019 update 2

2 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

Try using the "necked" button on the right, that gives me the closest to say a Harvey reduced ball, although for these I use their SIM file and an undefined tool to a level 

Same problem.

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1 hour ago, Manofwar said:

I've seen this problem before. So what's happening is the shank size is larger then the cutting diameter. This is not allowed for some reason. Try setting your shank diameter to 3mm also. Note on this that it only won't allow straight shank tools like this, tapered tools are fine to describe with larger shanks.

 

Yes, this does work, however the tool holder info relies on the correct shank diameter to select the correct holder. Usually, when you have to use a workaround in MC, something else is affected.

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This photo shows the issues we are speaking of.

Top of photo shows a Straight Shank tool with the outline in blue being the problem.

Highlight in red shows only difference between the two tools.

Green arrow shows the taper that is the issue. With this taper described some paths error out.

 

As you can see there is an error in drawing the tool where the cutting diameter cannot be smaller then the shank size when using straight shanks.

 

Problems.thumb.jpg.b3c57664e17c28611a81e15c37dc66df.jpg

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45 minutes ago, Mark VIII said:

Actually, the error is not the drawing of a tool with the cutter smaller than the shank. The error is that MC does not allow it.

Weird, when I create the tool geometry on a separate level and import the tool during creation, the flowline path regens just fine.

BUT...

But it thinks it's a .125 dia tool, AND it's offset from the drive surface by a good amount.(see pic)

The picture is a right side view of a 45 deg flat surface

 

Capture.PNG

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For lollipop, it looks like the shoulder diameter is limited to the cutting diameter for all 3 shank shapes (straight, tapered, reduced neck).  I guess that makes sense - once the shoulder diameter equals the cutting diameter, you no longer have a lollipop mill - you have a ball endmill.

For tapered and reduced shapes, you can set the shank diameter to something wider than the cutting diameter.  For the straight option, both the shank diameter and shoulder diameter are limited to the cutting diameter.  To work around that rule, I was able to set up a tapered shape but use a big value (89 degrees) for the taper angle and set a really short shoulder length.

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26 minutes ago, billb said:

For lollipop, it looks like the shoulder diameter is limited to the cutting diameter for all 3 shank shapes (straight, tapered, reduced neck).  I guess that makes sense - once the shoulder diameter equals the cutting diameter, you no longer have a lollipop mill - you have a ball endmill.

For tapered and reduced shapes, you can set the shank diameter to something wider than the cutting diameter.  For the straight option, both the shank diameter and shoulder diameter are limited to the cutting diameter.  To work around that rule, I was able to set up a tapered shape but use a big value (89 degrees) for the taper angle and set a really short shoulder length.

 

I think you are wrong Billb. The shank diameter is what it is using to control the cutting diameter. And, it does not make sense because they should have nothing to do with each other. The moral of the story is there is another MC error than needs to be fixed.

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12 minutes ago, Mark VIII said:

I think you are wrong Billb. The shank diameter is what it is using to control the cutting diameter. And, it does not make sense because they should have nothing to do with each other. The moral of the story is there is another MC error than needs to be fixed.

Thanks for the time and effort you put into looking into this Bill. Maybe this is something Mastercam could look into changing in the future. For now I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

 

59 minutes ago, billb said:

For the straight option, both the shank diameter and shoulder diameter are limited to the cutting diameter.  To work around that rule, I was able to set up a tapered shape but use a big value (89 degrees) for the taper angle and set a really short shoulder length.

I hadn't thought of this. I'll have to try it out.

 

Thanks,

 

Caleb

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