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Programming Time


MASTER OF PERFECTION
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You're talking actual time spent in front of the computer programming, not verification time, right? If so, then I don't think there's any hard and fast rule. It really depends on programming style and the overall goal of the program. If you're running one-off R&D stuff, you might not be so concerned about cycle time. However, I know I've spent a solid week just trying to squeeze every last second out of short cycle production parts with low margins.

Just curious why you're asking. Is this for quoting purposes? Finding some kind of benchmark or standard to hold programmers in your shop to?

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Yes sir. Just trying to get a standard. I'm in a job shop and need to come up with a fairly flexible programming time that does not include the fixture design. Just actual part programming. I have always thought  there were 3 types of programs: Job Shop, Production Shop, and Tool and Die. I'm looking for an average of the 3. It is a new shop and we are wanting to make sure each process has enough time allotted to them. We are using the times for quoting and have only one 1 bid. 

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That is the wonderful thing about our industry, every part is it's own unique part and faces it's own unique challenges. I do not see how anyone could come up with a solution that could put an allotted programming time to machine cycle time ratio. This where years of experience in the workshop comes into play. Having quoted a multitude of jobs, a seasoned machinist should be able to tell you estimated programming and cycle times based of the prints fairly quickly. I think being a MASTER OF PERFECTION you would want something a little closer to an experienced estimation rather than a random ratio formula to determine whether your company stays in business or not. Just my 2 cents, take it for what its worth.

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I second Brad's opinion on this. Being new puts you in a difficult position and I can feel for you on that. However, asking us to simplify this would really hurt you more than help. If the success of a specific project is dependent on the programming time, get an outside opinion on it. With that said, generally, the time programming had not ought to consume resources to that degree. Yes, that time does need to be considered, however, I know from experience that trying to skim the pennies off the dollar by accounting for every moment spent will cost more dollars that the profit projected. As you get more quotes under your belt, the time needed will become more apparent. For now, I honestly recommend getting second opinions, trust your colleges, and don't bite off more than you can chew. Most shops die of indigestion (and ramifications) than from starvation.

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I've been doing this a long time....I am not aware of any consistant correlation between programming time and run time.

Like others have already mentioned, I have had short programming times run a long time and longer programming times runs fairly quickly.

 

 

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On 10/19/2018 at 2:26 PM, MASTER OF PERFECTION said:

What is the programming time compare to the actual cycle time? I can not remember where I found the answer at. It was some type of ratio that was like 4 to 1. If it took 4 minutes to program then the cycle time would be 1 minute and etc., etc. If you have the data please post it.

the was good one !!!!I program big plate 120*60 for face operation 5 minutes and the program will be run 5 minutes !!!!!!!

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23 minutes ago, DUM1 said:

kinda reminds me of this time I had a boss who called himself a "master machinist" ... Sorry master of perfection I think the formula you're looking for is something someone saw on you tube once who slept at a holiday inn express

 

Yeah, sounds like someone is trying to hang his programmer. That kinda stuff usually backfires.

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I have a training book from the manual days that gives a time study to go by when quoting a die or tooling. It was based on size of the die and then # of holes, inches of the cut in the die to make the part, stations, ect...  I"ll see if I can find it and post it up here in a pdf format. It might give you an approach as to how to look at job. You may be able to make a time study out of it.

Just a idea.

 

Machineguy

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On 10/19/2018 at 3:26 PM, MASTER OF PERFECTION said:

What is the programming time compare to the actual cycle time? I can not remember where I found the answer at. It was some type of ratio that was like 4 to 1. If it took 4 minutes to program then the cycle time would be 1 minute and etc., etc. If you have the data please post it.

I also do not think a Ratio of time it takes to program vs run time exists,

For example,

Today i could have a part that takes me 1 minute to write a program that is Only a facing toolpath and 1 minute to run because its 1" round stock and the work piece material is plastic, then the next day i could have a another part that only requires a face toolpath and only takes me 1 minute to program just like before but this part happens to be 5 foot in diameter and is a very hard Tool steel which takes 4 hours to run. So in the first case my program to run time is 1:1 and in the second case its 1:240. 

or another hypothetical is 2 parts that are similar in size and material but one has loose tolerances and one has tight tolerances, i could end up spending much more time programming and running the tight toleranced part vs the loose tolerances part which is why i don't believe there is a rule of thumb or any formula for calculating programming vs run time.

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In the aerospace industry the rule of thumb for loose to tight tolerances: If it goes from +/-.001 to +/-.0001. , it a 10x increase in time for those tolerances to make..

quoting is crap shoot. Its 50/50 or 60/40 over the long haul you get it right. That's why you add a fudge factor to  a quote. Not easy to do.

The bottom line comes down to the machinists and tool makers. How goo are they?

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On 10/23/2018 at 5:44 PM, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

And how similar is the part to other parts recently done?  If it's very similar a lot of the process engineering and operations can be reused.

Alot of times I am programming 2 or 3 similar parts. The first one might take half a day or more, but I can then re-use toolpaths like Matt said and the next two parts might only take an hour each.

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21 minutes ago, mikenaturalice said:

Alot of times I am programming 2 or 3 similar parts. The first one might take half a day or more, but I can then re-use toolpaths like Matt said and the next two parts might only take an hour each.

I have a lot of "blank" parts just to save time, so all the parts who are similar are programmed with the same method, its a lot easier for the setup man on the floor

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