Reason for machine environment & maintenance cost?

[jmk021083]

I am working on updating our MasterCam to MillTurn.  I am being told I have to buy MasterCam's version of the machine environment even though I have a file of the machine in 3D.  Also, I am told the yearly maintenance will go up to include this machine environment.  Is this normal/necessary?  I really don't see what could change or needing updates with the machine environment? 

[Colin Gilchrist]

37 minutes ago, jmk021083 said:

I am working on updating our MasterCam to MillTurn.  I am being told I have to buy MasterCam's version of the machine environment even though I have a file of the machine in 3D.  Also, I am told the yearly maintenance will go up to include this machine environment.  Is this normal/necessary?  I really don't see what could change or needing updates with the machine environment? 

Yes, the Machine Environment contains the machine models, with a Post that is part of the Dot Machine (.machine) file. The whole thing is integrated into Mastercam, in the form of a new "software simulation layer" called Mastercam Extensions. The Mastercam Extensions interface gives you the ability to Sync Operations together, and configure the "Output Tokens" to control things like Coolant or Machine Functions.

So the Mill-Turn module gives you much more control over the machine, and helps you to avoid collisions and mistakes. The maintenance fee is charged on each Machine Environment you purchase, and is not optional. 

[huskermcdoogle]

50 minutes ago, jmk021083 said:

I really don't see what could change or needing updates with the machine environment? 

If I had to venture a guess you are paying maintenance on that machine environment and they will guarantee to keep it functional as they make updates and changes.

[Frank Caudillo]

Just went to a seminar on this from our local reseller yesterday, and it's completely different than regular machine sim or verify and absolutely necessary if you want to get the most out of your mill-turn with the least amount of headaches.

[jmk021083]

Thanks for the replies.  I was just curious for some of the reasoning being that you can build your own machine.

[JParis]

4 minutes ago, jmk021083 said:

Thanks for the replies.  I was just curious for some of the reasoning being that you can build your own machine.

Not for Mill/Turn...the machsim in Mastercam does not support building lathes

[Frank Caudillo]

6 minutes ago, jmk021083 said:

Thanks for the replies.  I was just curious for some of the reasoning being that you can build your own machine.

As far as I know, you can build your own machine for regular mill/lathe Machine Sim, but not for Mill-Turn. As Colin pointed out, it is literally a complete Machine Environment that is built by CNC Software and not customize-able by the end user (at least that's what I was told by our re-seller), which is the reason for the associated maintenance costs. If something needs to be updated or fixed, only CNC Software can do it.

[nickbe10]

There are plenty of people out there using normal MP set ups to run Mill/Turns.

The problem is there is no way other than experience to control wait codes at a "granular level" as the technical term goes. And even taking that into account the posts are pretty nightmarish, especially B axis head machines.

If you want an MP set up the best place to go is Postability (unless you are an advanced post writer / editor). They specialize in this sort of thing and will get you as close as possible with MP, although they are very up front about the limitations. And of course it also depends on what sort of functionality you want / need.

If you don't have a LOT of experience actually running Mill / Turns, I would recommend the Mill / Turn module.... if they have one for your machine.

[Mark VIII]

51 minutes ago, nickbe10 said:

There are plenty of people out there using normal MP set ups to run Mill/Turns.

The problem is there is no way other than experience to control wait codes at a "granular level" as the technical term goes. And even taking that into account the posts are pretty nightmarish, especially B axis head machines.

If you want an MP set up the best place to go is Postability (unless you are an advanced post writer / editor). They specialize in this sort of thing and will get you as close as possible with MP, although they are very up front about the limitations. And of course it also depends on what sort of functionality you want / need.

If you don't have a LOT of experience actually running Mill / Turns, I would recommend the Mill / Turn module.... if they have one for your machine.

 

What is most interesting is the posts that we got directly from our MC reseller are far from being accurate. The Okuma post we got was awful. These were not custom posts. They seem to be the same posts that they have been handing out for years. Are we to believe that we were the first people to run these posts? It looks to me like they are deliberately sending out bad posts in order to get you to pay more for customizing a post for a standard machine. It's just a 2 axis lathe. Nothing special.

Like you said, if you do not have a lot of experience in posts, or operating the machines, you are really at the mercy of the software company.

[Jayson Kramer]

Mark VIII , you are acting like cnc software gave you this post. I am not sure who your dealer is but this does not mean that this is there post they made and did not go to another source like CNC.Now did the dealer get dialed in for you in a timely matter? You can reach out to other sources for your posts to so you are not fully stuck there.

[nickbe10]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:33 PM, Mark VIII said:

Like you said, if you do not have a lot of experience in posts, or operating the machines, you are really at the mercy of the software company.

I think the problem is equally that people want to become programmers before they are ready. I had 15 yrs. experience making airplane parts others choked on before I got my first full time programming gig. I was programming for most of those 15 years but I was also out on the machine daily setting up and running my code.

The machine experience really paid off. I am now quicker than most, both in terms of programming time and run times. There are plenty of people out there who know more about the MC bells and whistles than I do, but I have he advantage of knowing what my program is going to look like BEFORE I start, rather than hoping that MC will solve the problems for me. At that point it is merely a matter of bending MC to my will.....