DCOPE17

Using a tooling ball in MasterCam

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Ran an old program today and apparently the fixutre offset is not in the center of the tooling ball. I was instructed after scrapping the part that I was supposed to trig out the offset point if you were to project a point down through the tooling ball, NORMAL to the surface, to where it hits the surface. In this case its about + .050 in the Y axis and -.086 in the Z axis. 

 

Let me ask all you other MasterCammers, have you ever this? 

 

Foe me, every time I have used a tooling ball the origin is the center of the ball X, Y and Z,

 

Gonna talk with my boss tomorrow about this. 

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1 minute ago, DCOPE17 said:

Ran an old program today and apparently the fixutre offset is not in the center of the tooling ball. I was instructed after scrapping the part that I was supposed to trig out the offset point if you were to project a point down through the tooling ball, NORMAL to the surface, to where it hits the surface. In this case its about + .050 in the Y axis and -.086 in the Z axis. 

 

Let me ask all you other MasterCammers, have you ever this? 

 

Foe me, every time I have used a tooling ball the origin is the center of the ball X, Y and Z,

 

Gonna talk with my boss tomorrow about this. 

Without seeing the part and everythin hard for me to guess. What did the setup insturctions say? Where was the reference made on the setup insturctions? Normally the center fo the sphere is where all number go from on a tooling ball. Doesn't matter the proejct angle center is center as long as you can pick up center. When you try going under the tool ball then yes you got have problem, but sorry I would have to say that sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me.

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Tilted 30 degrees, easily spin the ball in, nothing in the way. 

I mean, I could have examined the mastercam file, no setup sheet, but it is a groove, 2D path just cutting through the part. I guess it never occurred to me that the FO could be anywhere other than the center of the ball. 

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1 hour ago, DCOPE17 said:

Tilted 30 degrees, easily spin the ball in, nothing in the way. 

I mean, I could have examined the mastercam file, no setup sheet, but it is a groove, 2D path just cutting through the part. I guess it never occurred to me that the FO could be anywhere other than the center of the ball. 

I would have to think the same thing, but part of our job is to know what we know and we know that by knowing what we do and that may mean part of the work to find out about even the little thing. A guess is what you did and sorry it turned out wrong, but you might have to share the blame on this one. I promise you this you will never let this happen again.

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I have seen it two ways.

 

WCS is the center of the ball, which is my preference.

 

Then you have WCS at the part datum or another location,  so you pick up the ball and then shift. Either way it should be on a setup sheet with notes and drafting arrows. Hell even if I program for myself I make notes and a basic setup sheet. 

 

 

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I have only seen the center of the ball used for chasing a fixture around rotations.

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I use them with custom angle fixtures on 3 axis VMCs and compound angles on HMCs. 

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Thanks everyone, I knew I wasn't crazy... and I should have checked it out thoroughly. I'm not trying to pass the blame, just wanted to boss to know how unusual it is to have a tooling ball out in the open then use a different Fixture Offset point. 

I explained it to my wife like this last night... There are many options for FO points on any part. As soon as you put in a tooling ball, then there is really only one option and no explanation is required. 

And, I still have a job. Thanks everyone. 

Dan

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I'm with everyone else here, I can't imagine a scenario where i would use anything but the center of the ball.

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Skipping setup sheets is only ever viable in a one-man shop, and even then it's inadvisable since you may not remember how you did something three years ago.  The error in the process was that there was nothing telling you what to do.

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https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/81812034

 

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/97722227

 

2 1/2 diameter tooling balls with different shoulder height. Absolutely always have to document that before anyone touches that. I had a guy who liked to order 12mm tooling balls too, Made for a fun day trying to figure out why my program was off when it wasn't :)

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On 3/14/2019 at 10:47 AM, So not a Guru said:

I'm with everyone else here, I can't imagine a scenario where i would use anything but the center of the ball.

yep,

the original programmer COMPLETELY missed the point of using a tooling ball.

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Center of ball always....it it's behind something, I'll add a second ball to the fixture to be able to easily set...

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Most of what I do is big, expensive and one of a kind

When I use tooling balls, my first toolpath is a tooling ball check

I'll do a point tool path to the center of the ball stopping .010 off the surface

If that's not right, either the setup is wrong or I've screwed up 

 

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From what I can gather a tooling ball is useful when 5x isn't available or practical, like in picking up strange compound angle hole locations on a sine plate?

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7 hours ago, Metallic said:

From what I can gather a tooling ball is useful when 5x isn't available or practical, like in picking up strange compound angle hole locations on a sine plate?

They are also useful if it is not possible or practical to center a large part on the C/L of a table 

The operator places tooling balls wherever it is convenient and gives the programmer the coordinates of the tooling balls in relationship to  the part

and the C/L of the table.

The programmer uses the C/L of the tooling balls as program origins. 

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2 hours ago, gcode said:

They are also useful if it is not possible or practical to center a large part in the C/L of a table 

The operator places tooling balls wherever it is convenient and gives the programmer the coordinates of the tooling balls in relationship to  the part

and the C/L of the table.

The programmer uses the C/L of the tooling balls as program origins. 

Interesting. In your example am I to assume you are not using TCPC or similar programming methods? Thanks

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13 minutes ago, Metallic said:

Interesting. In your example am I to assume you are not using TCPC or similar programming methods? Thanks

no.. this is on big horizontal boring mills with no 4 or 5X comp of any kind.

I've done parts with tooling balls on all 4 corners of the table programming 8 or more rotary angles.

Its really tough on the operators, because the posted code has no relationship at all to the blue print.

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