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Haas blew up again


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New spindle put in 70 days ago. Yesterday it started screaming about noon. 10000 RPM got real loud. TSC couldnt keep the spindle cool enough so even the tool change was LOUD.

Haas was called, be in today or Monday. Spindle # 5 comming up!

VM-3 2010 version.

By the way. It's on Hass nickle. 90 day warranty applies.

We take care of this machine, but it breaks down way to often.

 

Hows a Doosan hold up?

 

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The Haas I owned in the 90's didn't have through spindle coolant

The headstock was hollow with the spindle cartridge running through the middle of it.

The flood coolant flowed through the head stock, cooling the spindle cartridge.

The down side to this was if you were running something that didn't need coolant

the spindle would overheat because coolant wasn't flowing through the headstock.

If your machine spindle is cooled the same way it might help to plumb a line to the coolant tank

and cycle coolant through the head stock all the time

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hAAS IS HERE NOW. It is the spindle, its at +100 deg in 15 min of running.

trying to find out why it went out. 

300 psi does help get the tools out, but I had it running and it got loud. 

was told it shouldn't get hot without the TSC running.

Bad part is he does'nt have a spindle on the truck. It is a cartridge type for the 12000 rpm max.

Maybe Monday.

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1 hour ago, Machineguy said:

hAAS IS HERE NOW. It is the spindle, its at +100 deg in 15 min of running.

trying to find out why it went out. 

If you are running very small through coolant drills at high spindle rpm's ,

the volume of coolant flowing through the spindle  is probably not adequate to keep the spindle cool

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1 hour ago, Machineguy said:

hAAS IS HERE NOW. It is the spindle, its at +100 deg in 15 min of running.

trying to find out why it went out. 

300 psi does help get the tools out, but I had it running and it got loud. 

was told it shouldn't get hot without the TSC running.

Bad part is he does'nt have a spindle on the truck. It is a cartridge type for the 12000 rpm max.

Maybe Monday.

I haven't touched a Haas for almost a decade, but at the last place I worked that had them we had 5 VMC with high pressure through coolant. We ran 20+ hours a day at high rpm, often with through coolant. We replaced a spindle about every 6 months. Two to three years was the life we came to expect from each spindle. Most of the time it was bearing failure. A few times it was the cheap rotary unions starting to leak coolant into the spindle housing. 

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You may consider switching to Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil instead of vactra2 (thought i saw that in some Haas document). just comparing colors should be telling. Vactra eventually plugs the restrictors.

 Some oils specs are so stringent they cant be shipped in metal barrels due to leaching.

My original 2002 spindle is whittling Titanium ATM🙏

 

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I have worked for two shops that ran multiple Haas machines.

1st one went through a spindle or two between 6 machines about every two years.

the other shop would blow a spindle out about every 3 months between 7-8 machines.

 

1st shop had pretty good machinists very few crashes and approached their jobs in a shallow high speed way.

2nd shop had less than talented machinists at least one crash a day and approached their jobs with full depth old school ways.

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We've had a Doosan Mill since September 2015 that replaced our outgoing Mazak V655/60.  Several points about the machine - good and bad:

The Good:

Machine is rigid and can handle a big fat 4" OTM Drill pretty well.  We have a Big Plus spindle and high rapid feed, which is nice and operates smoothly.  Only 6000 RPM on that.

 

The Bad:

Well, Compared to the HAAS controller, its more of a pain in the arse to navigate the controller and setup tools.
We've had some issues early on with the hardware of the machine itself: Several tool pots were causing the tool changer to stutter after a tool change when the arm was returning to origin.  We currently are having issues with the 4th axis - it is not indexing to the machine home - it wants to index 5 degrees and automatically set it home from that point.  I find it harder to self-program on that machine than a Mazak, plus it takes longer to setup tools.
During face milling, when the tool indexer stops moving, the you can actually feel when the indexer stops, causing a small gouge in parts.  Never have had a machine that does this.

 

Other than that, I rank the Doosan a #3 in terms of ease of setup vs a Mazak and vs a HAAS.

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So here's the story.

Haas came in on Friday and changed the spindle out. On testing the tec found a leak in the lube line above the spindle. He changed it out and retested and all is good.

Spindle run in pgm was run with no issues.

Lucky it was on their dime as the 90 day was in effect, by 2 days!

i reset the probes, tools and reset the fixture with no issues. Parts are running now. (yea its Sat)

I will say the Haas controller is the most friendly of all the ones Ive worked on.  Now one thing changed 6 years or so ago. the lube oil changed from Vactra 2 to Mobil SCH 625 at Haas request. The reason is Vactra 2 takes on water and rusts the ball screws and bearings.

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:06 AM, Machineguy said:

I will say the Haas controller is the most friendly of all the ones Ive worked on.  Now one thing changed 6 years or so ago. the lube oil changed from Vactra 2 to Mobil SCH 625 at Haas request. The reason is Vactra 2 takes on water and rusts the ball screws and bearings.

I agree the HAAS controller is the most user friendly.  Did not take me long to figure out where everything is and I was surprised at the ease of learning how to work my way through everything within 5 hours of on-line instruction.

Mobil SCH 625 2 for the slideway oil or head oil or for everything?

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Kinda wish we had the inline spindle.  Ours is offset and has a belt from the motor to spindle.  We don't seem to have much of an issue with tramp oil in the coolant tank, which is a good thing.  Can't say the same for the Doosan.

 

Is the inline spindle better for torque and power than what I currently have?  I know our HAAS cannot drill with a 2.5" Drill and bigger on Stainless.  I've stalled the machine multiple times trying to drill out a thru hole into a 6" Cube of 304L SS.

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The issue I find with Doosan is obsolete parts especially sensors which can get costly if needed to replace. We have several Doosan Machines Lathe and Mills.  But overall a cost effective and very capable machine. I see them more and more in Machine shops. Good way to keep the overhead low. Better than Haas by a long shot. 

Wide range of machines as well. Lots to choose from. Try to get one which has a external oil spindle cooler.

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I wonder how often y'all are running Haas spindles at 100% of their capable RPM? Or if you're familiar with the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I see youngsters revving up their spindles like hot rods, 10k all day everyday on a 10k spindle. If you want to run 10k all day everyday, perhaps look into a 12k spindle. Don't beat the thing an inch from it's life,  you might be surprised from the results. If you can't afford a higher RPM spindle adjust your adjust your feed rate accordingly.

.. Been using Haas since the 90's and have only seen one spindle failure along the way.

-j

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Had an owner that insisted run just bellow max. I have been doing just that ever since, he was a very wise machinist and learned much from him.

always looked at it as 10k or 9800 it really isnt that much of a % at the end of the day.

BTW I personally have had very good luck with spindles. only had maybe 3 smoke on me in 35 years. of course i was not exclusive to every machine along the way so when someone smoked a spindle on a machine i have worked in the past does not say it was him or visa versa....

5 years on the haas i personally owned and it was smooth as silk when i sold it. I babied that thing most of the time, it was my time and my dime.

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On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 4:52 PM, JeremyV said:

Our HAAS VF-6 does see 7500RPM most days.

Not the first time I've heard the message  jlelievre said.

Our Mazak has 10,000rpm, we max it out at 9800 and the Doosan has 6000rpm max, which we run at 5800.

 

To be honest, IMO your 200rpm below the max theory is a waste of time. The difference in forces is less than negligible and if you look at the bearings, chances are the 10k spindle has 12k rated bearings and the 6k spindle has 8 or 10k rated bearings.

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Ceramic bearings, class 7.

Doesn't matter what class of bearings you use. Lack of lube will kill it sooner or later. In our case 3 months.

Now the pressure switch for the TSC went bad. Got the replacement. Letting Haas install it so they can check the previous work .

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:24 AM, JeremyV said:

We've had a Doosan Mill since September 2015 that replaced our outgoing Mazak V655/60.  Several points about the machine - good and bad:

The Good:

Machine is rigid and can handle a big fat 4" OTM Drill pretty well.  We have a Big Plus spindle and high rapid feed, which is nice and operates smoothly.  Only 6000 RPM on that.

 

The Bad:

Well, Compared to the HAAS controller, its more of a pain in the arse to navigate the controller and setup tools.
We've had some issues early on with the hardware of the machine itself: Several tool pots were causing the tool changer to stutter after a tool change when the arm was returning to origin.  We currently are having issues with the 4th axis - it is not indexing to the machine home - it wants to index 5 degrees and automatically set it home from that point.  I find it harder to self-program on that machine than a Mazak, plus it takes longer to setup tools.
During face milling, when the tool indexer stops moving, the you can actually feel when the indexer stops, causing a small gouge in parts.  Never have had a machine that does this.

 

Other than that, I rank the Doosan a #3 in terms of ease of setup vs a Mazak and vs a HAAS.

Your machine needs to be releveled.

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