Jump to content

Welcome to eMastercam

Register now to participate in the forums, access the download area, buy Mastercam training materials, post processors and more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Use your display name or email address to sign in:

Stock Models


TERRYH
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I have been getting away from using .STL files and using stock models a lot more since we switched from X9 to 2019, when I have multipal operations  it's kind of nice to have it when one is completed going to the next so I have a accurate representation of where my part is actually at in the process. I am having issues trying to create one when I select several tool paths at once it seems to only be able to handle a couple at a time, is there any cure for this, my reseller has tried to help and don't know why it does not wok and actually sent it on up to CNC software, does anyone have any suggestions that may help on this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why either, but please keep us informed on this.

I have a file right now that I cannot create a stock model without it locking up my box so badly that the only way to recover is with a hard reboot! And the stock model I'm trying to create has only one 2250K morph path, it swallows every bit of my physical memory, so that the box cannot operate.

This is the worse instance of this I've come across and I'll be sending it to our reseller to forward to CNC.

I'm using 2018, so this isn't exclusive to 2019.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terry,

I'm using a combination of stl's and stock models. I feel they fixed the stl issues that used to happen in X9, and since I still verify my operations, I just save that to an stl and then read it back into my mastercam file to give me a visual double check on my part. Then if I need a stock model (since Mastercam broke it's ability to reference stl's when 'rest-roughing, sigh) I convert the stl to a stock model and I never have any issues. Otherwise, I just use the stl to show me any places I missed or, sometimes....it will show me where Mastercam violated my part and I can fix that...when will Mastercam FIX their part violations?????

Link to comment
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, sharles said:

(since Mastercam broke it's ability to reference stl's when 'rest-roughing, sigh)

you can reference an stl file directly or use it to make a stock model then reference it

What am I missing???

 

MC2019 screen shot

restmill.PNG

Link to comment
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, gcode said:

you can reference an stl file directly or use it to make a stock model then reference it

What am I missing???

 

MC2019 screen shot

restmill.PNG

Yes, you can reference it directly, just like I always used to do it in X9, but sometimes 2019 won't read an stl correctly. I had a part in which mastercam dove to the bottom of the stock when using an stl. I sent it off to my reseller, who sent it off to CNC Software, and their 'fix' was to generate a stock model from the stl and then the rest-roughing program worked fine. It was logged as a bug, but I don't know if it's been fixed. Since then I always reference stock models instead of stl's in 2019.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, So not a Guru said:

How do you do this?

create the stl when in verify and save it to a known folder. Then 'merge' that stl back into your mastercam file: it will default to the first empty level and you can name it. Then click on 'toolpaths' at the top and select 'stock model'. When that pops up be sure to change the 'stock plane' to mastercam top. Then select the 'model' button under "Initial stock shape" and click on the arrow which will pop you back to your graphics screen, where you can click on the stl file that you just merged into your mastercam file. Then I normally change the 'initial stock shape tol.' from .001 to .01 and click on the green arrow. It will take a few minutes to generate, and for bigger parts it may take 20 minutes or so. I know Terry likes to use the other method because you can still do other things in Mastercam, but mastercam has NEVER fouled up on me doing it this way even though it's a little slower.

stock model.bmp

  • Thanks 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have heard a lot of people complain about stock models, but as long as you use the right strategies... while not flawless... stock models are pretty awesome.

STL's are old school... I haven't used them in years. I have had 20 or more stock models in one file across multiple multi-axis operations without issue. Using stock models are the only way for me.

Here are a few things I do for success:

- Never pick center drills to add to your stock models. The problem may have been corrected by now, but when I started using stock models they always caused problems and, in my experience, they aren't needed for representation anyway.

- Don't use weird custom geometry. Feed mills come to mind. There is already too much information getting crunched... why complicate it? Take a few minutes to sketch up what size Bull EM will fit over your feed mill... then use that. The difference in geometry is inconsequential... it is only a rougher... and the time you save in computing and headaches will be enormous.

- Save frequently. That way if you have a problem with something going dirty... instead of spending hours regenerating... you can just re-open your file... redo 2 or 3 toolpaths... and keep going. And use Mastercam's  Back-Up function... it can save you hours of work.

- If you need to make a change to a toolpath early on in a program... duplicate your file... then make the change in the new file. Again...there is no such thing as having too many backup files. *** Very important on this subject... I'm not suggesting having multiple files!!! I am saying, as you go along and run into a problem... it is a huge time saver to have a good file to go back to.... you at least have the option to go back to a file that had zero problems... then, redo 2 or 3 or 5 toolpaths, rather than regenerating for hours at a time... then getting a dirty toolpath again... then regenerating again. Regenerating is the enemy, unless you are convinced it will be a quicker solution.... but even then... make a back up file first.

- Last resort... if your toolpaths keep going dirty... lock them... that is what the function is there for.

Finally, if you are doing big work... don't be afraid to work across multiple files. Of course, I would agree, it is better to have all of your operations in one file... it is much more orderly... but I have worked on enormous files of 80,000 lb. parts... files so big and slow it was absurd... wasting hours regenerating previously proven out operations when it isn't necessary is silly. Save, save, save.

We all wish software worked flawless with no workarounds... but that's just fantasy with high-level engineering software... especially when they are releasing cutting edge technology from year to year... there are simply going to be bugs and flaws.

Get your house in order... use good practices... it will save hours, days and weeks of yours and your employers time.

JM2C.

  • Thanks 1
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, So not a Guru said:

I generally agree, but sometimes, as in the instance I stated above, they are the only option.

I'm on an older system with only 16GB of RAM and sometimes the system is overloaded by the stock model.

Penny smart, pound foolish is an old saying... tell your boss Reko said to pony up some cash for a decent PC.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back to the original question, I don't know if this is related to your issue or not, but I found it was causing issues with my computer trying to do the same thing, check Configuration, Toolpaths, Memory Buffering setting.  I don't know how mine got down to 50%, but once I bumped it back up to 80%, I didn't have these issues so much anymore.  I happened to see it as a suggestion to another question here, so that's how I found it.

 

Brent 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sharles said:

create the stl when in verify and save it to a known folder. Then 'merge' that stl back into your mastercam file: it will default to the first empty level and you can name it. Then click on 'toolpaths' at the top and select 'stock model'. When that pops up be sure to change the 'stock plane' to mastercam top. Then select the 'model' button under "Initial stock shape" and click on the arrow which will pop you back to your graphics screen, where you can click on the stl file that you just merged into your mastercam file. Then I normally change the 'initial stock shape tol.' from .001 to .01 and click on the green arrow. It will take a few minutes to generate, and for bigger parts it may take 20 minutes or so. I know Terry likes to use the other method because you can still do other things in Mastercam, but mastercam has NEVER fouled up on me doing it this way even though it's a little slower.

stock model.bmp

What does the initial shape tolerance mean? Will that make it a "coarser" model? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sharles said:

create the stl when in verify and save it to a known folder. Then 'merge' that stl back into your mastercam file: it will default to the first empty level and you can name it. Then click on 'toolpaths' at the top and select 'stock model'. When that pops up be sure to change the 'stock plane' to mastercam top. Then select the 'model' button under "Initial stock shape" and click on the arrow which will pop you back to your graphics screen, where you can click on the stl file that you just merged into your mastercam file. Then I normally change the 'initial stock shape tol.' from .001 to .01 and click on the green arrow. It will take a few minutes to generate, and for bigger parts it may take 20 minutes or so. I know Terry likes to use the other method because you can still do other things in Mastercam, but mastercam has NEVER fouled up on me doing it this way even though it's a little slower.

stock model.bmp

Also, why cant you just save the stock model instead of saving the STL? Will their be any quality issues? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, navsENG said:

What does the initial shape tolerance mean? Will that make it a "coarser" model? 

 

37 minutes ago, navsENG said:

Also, why cant you just save the stock model instead of saving the STL? Will their be any quality issues? 

I'm guessing it does make it coarser, but I typically don't reference a stock model unless I'm roughing a part and leaving .05 or so stock...so it just helps to speed up the processing when I have huge file with 10's of 1000's of surfaces in them.

As for your 2nd question, I don't see an option in verify to save a stock model, only an .stl. Maybe Reko or one of the other guys who use the stock models more fully can answer your question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, sharles said:

 

I'm guessing it does make it coarser, but I typically don't reference a stock model unless I'm roughing a part and leaving .05 or so stock...so it just helps to speed up the processing when I have huge file with 10's of 1000's of surfaces in them.

As for your 2nd question, I don't see an option in verify to save a stock model, only an .stl. Maybe Reko or one of the other guys who use the stock models more fully can answer your question.

If you save a stock model, you can right click and save as a PMesh which I have used once or twice.. I usually have to fumble around with it to make it work how I want though..

 

And that makes sense for the tolerance thing.. Sometimes on my verify when I use the "compare" tab. I have features that show they have overcut a few thou, when the code is correct. That is a little bit annoying but not a huge deal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to see a project come to a screeching halt they using a highfeed mill and creating a stock model from the toolpaths. I went back to using an STL from verify for this project because the internal process has simply failed. My computers are not bottom of the barrel either. I can use up my 64Gb of ram easily with a stock model. I create my STL, import it to a level inside of Mastercam and reference the model inside the stock model. It is the only stable process I have found.

Gcode, the external STL option is broken. In the toolpath operation it simply fails when you try it. If you use an external STL for a stock model it creates fine but will lose its link anytime you import geometry into the file. I lost several days to this very issue. Happened to me twice and took me about 6 hours each time to regenerate. All that time my file was locked up where I was unable to do other work.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed Matt...

On simply, 3 axis mill stuff I'll use Stock Model between OP's.....

Once I get to tombstones, more complex work, more parts on each face.....I still use stl's...I'll save them out and re-import them , then more to the next op positions

I keep my use of Stock Models to a minimum for driving rest milling ops...they go dirty to often for reasons I have never been able to ascertain.....so in something complex with multiple tied together stock models and then using transform heavily...I just avoid the headache as much as I can.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use stock models as necessary for certain things, but I posted a topic awhile back that discussed how some of my solid models simply do not work with the Stock Model function. I am not sure as to why that is the case, but since then I have been using STL for multiple machine groups as the stock for when I have simulations that take 10+ minutes to run. Just create a new machine group and use the STL as your stock, then you dont have to wait that much time for the Simulator to crunch. Not a perfect solution, but it works.

 

I use the Stock Model for smaller parts and it usually works flawlessly. Hope that 2020 has some nice enhancements!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gms1 said:

When they make it so I can translate stock models (translate/rotate) I can drop using stls. Until then I still have to use stl models for some of the stuff I do.

You have always been able to do this.  Take a copy of your part model and a gnomon at the WCS for your first operation, rotate and translate them both together until the part is positioned for your next operation, and use the gnomon to define a new plane.  Then make a new copy of your stock model, referencing no operations, and set it to use the new plane.  I do this frequently in X9.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Have they made 2020 more stable than 2019, man getting tired of beating my head against the wall trying to do things in this without having to find some sort of work around. Also All the odd bugs of randomly creating odd work plans, and totally blitzing out your programs when you delete something that had nothing at all to do with existing programs.  And stock models not working all the time. Have a part that I cannot get them to work period no matter what I do. Tried it the old way we was shown when we first switched of saving a .STL then importing it back in to a level and using that to create a stock model, it created on fine, then when used in verify it would make the surfaces where it was cutting disappear like it was a sheet body or something.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Join us!

eMastercam - your online source for all things Mastercam.

Together, we are the strongest Mastercam community on the web with over 56,000 members, and our online store offers a wide selection of training materials for all applications and skill levels.

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...