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Mazak questions


Bob W.
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Hi All, been a while.  Been working my @ss off 🙂  I am looking into getting a new cell and the only machine I have come across that does what I need is the Mazak Integrex i630/6.  This is a large 5-axis mill with turning capabilities.  The main requirements are:

Able to put in a cell

5-axis milling

turning

My questions are:  How are Mazaks as far as reliability?  Are there any other manufacturers that make a machine that will satisfy these requirements?  How is Mazak's control?  I do a lot of probing where the probe is updating control parameters and I also do a lot of macro programming.  Does Mazak's control support these features well?  Obviously I will be hitting up the sales rep and getting in touch with an AE but I figure I'll get a faster answer here.

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23 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Able to put in a cell

5-axis milling

turning

You can't think of these B axis head machines as 50/50 combo mill and lathe.

I have yet to see or heard a machinist say anything other than  "I wish the B axis head was  more rigid."

Think of it as a lathe with SOME 5 axis milling capability and you are less likely to be disappointed.

If you have the right parts they can be a timesaver, but along with that comes one of the most complicated machining systems out there.

Post processers and getting the thing set up properly and talking nicely with the programming system are definite challenges. All those rotating axis components have to jive....

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Hi Bob, i dont have answers or recommendations to your question but If you are planning on using mastercam mill turn product instead of regular mill and lathe i would suggest checking with your reseller before making a purchase to make sure they have a Mill Turn environment available, There are Tons of them available for lots of variety machines but it might be something to double check before making a purchase. these types of Mill Turns can be programmed with a suitble post processor but for the Mastercam MT product which makes programming these machines way easier and offers simulation there has to be a Mill Turn environment available. Just something to consider, all of the most popluar machines i am sure mastercam has a MT environment for but i am sure there are some out there that there inst one available yet so its just something else to also consider

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47 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Hi All, been a while.  Been working my @ss off 🙂  I am looking into getting a new cell and the only machine I have come across that does what I need is the Mazak Integrex i630/6.  This is a large 5-axis mill with turning capabilities.  The main requirements are:

Able to put in a cell

5-axis milling

turning

My questions are:  How are Mazaks as far as reliability?  Are there any other manufacturers that make a machine that will satisfy these requirements?  How is Mazak's control?  I do a lot of probing where the probe is updating control parameters and I also do a lot of macro programming.  Does Mazak's control support these features well?  Obviously I will be hitting up the sales rep and getting in touch with an AE but I figure I'll get a faster answer here.

Have you looked at the Okuma VTM 1200 and it's big brother the VTM2000

 

and yes.. It has been a while.. its good to see you !!

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We've done quite a bit of space type work in the mache AeroJet/Blue Origin etc etc .. mostly Inconel and can'tcutium alloys

They'd haul me out in handcuffs it I posted photos of some of the work we've done on it

Here is  one I can post

 

 

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We only have an i300-ST mill/turn machine so I can't answer to the mill but Mazak uses a Mitsubishi control and you can do full macro programming with the exception of the "IF THEN" statement. If you do use that statement then you would need to modify your code with WHILE DO loops or IF GOTO statements. I've just had to update my routers for this reason for our new Kitamura machines which also uses the Mitsubishi control. I seem to remember that you can go 27 levels deep with the WHILE DO loop with Mazak.

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4 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

You can't think of these B axis head machines as 50/50 combo mill and lathe.

I have yet to see or heard a machinist say anything other than  "I wish the B axis head was  more rigid."

Think of it as a lathe with SOME 5 axis milling capability and you are less likely to be disappointed.

If you have the right parts they can be a timesaver, but along with that comes one of the most complicated machining systems out there.

Post processers and getting the thing set up properly and talking nicely with the programming system are definite challenges. All those rotating axis components have to jive....

I dont think you have ever ran that machine so you cant say that... I run a cell with 2 mazak e-1550 v's (just a larger version of the machine you are talking about) 

This mill/turn I am speaking of weighs 100k pounds, rigidity is something I have never had an issue with... I would expect the 630v to be built in the same manner, just smaller. 

They are pretty awesome machines. We have had our issues with them, but I don't believe it is the machine tool builders fault.. The machines were run hard and unfortunately have been whacked a few times.. They still do a good job regardless. 

We do tons of probing on the machines and it works as you would expect.. What sort of probing / macro cycles are you talking about? 

 

The only thing that is a pain on these machines is trying to do deep turning work on the ID. Unless you have a ramtec machine, your reach is all tool shank. Not like a VTL where you can get down inside the part.. 

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Okuma 6300 meets most requirements, but not sure of the envelope.

 Mikron makes a P800u with turning that is close to that envelope. TRD has them in a massive cell. Polymer-granite construction that holds..... Wait for it....... microns. They also have their 1350 in the same cell. (Bigger better variant coming soon)

...45 in tall..might take a look at gcode's 1200. Absolutely awesome. On board CAS.

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2 years ago I would have given Mazak a glowing recommendation.  However, in the last 2 years I've seen about 14 new installs and every single one of them had issues.  I will add this, even the Japanese machines.  Ranging from minor electrical issues, to install issues to spindle replacements before they could even be ran.

I do believe Mazak can still make a good machine but it is just not worth the risk considering the cost and other options out there.  If you do go with Mazak, I'll help you any way I can and I bet a dollar I have more info than the average tech that comes out.

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The Okuma VTM1200 will work and the Okuma rep told me these can be put into a Fastems cell.  I have always had a lukewarm feeling on Mazak but that is entirely from what I have heard over the years.  I think very highly of Okuma for the exactly the same reason, what I have heard over the years.  We are currently an all Makino shop and if they made something in this category it would be a no-brainer.  I have nothing but good things to say about them.  I do want to maintain that level  of quality in this shop.

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5 minutes ago, mkd said:

Only negative thing I have to say is they are '100 feet' tall.

Yes.. we should have put ours in a pit. We didn't and I think the face of the chuck is about 6ft off the floor

The flip side of that is it would have been a deep expensive pit.

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4 minutes ago, gcode said:

Yes.. we should have put ours in a pit. We didn't and I think the face of the chuck is about 6ft off the floor

The flip side of that is it would have been a deep expensive pit.

Not to mention the wide area of metal plate flooring needed to allow access around the machine base while inside the pit.....

 

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1 minute ago, mkd said:

Not to mention the wide area of metal plate flooring needed to allow access around the machine base while inside the pit.....

 

we built a platform around ours.

we also welded grating inside the machine to give the guys something to stand on while setting up

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