Mazak questions

[Reko]

On 6/21/2019 at 2:48 PM, Bob W. said:

We finally got AS9100 certified and ITAR registered.  Been doing a lot of aerospace work with the focus more on the space side.  We are getting pushed into bigger parts by our customers and this style of machine would kill it.

This is a red flag to me.

I've seen good shops have major problems ( bankruptcy/ out of business ) when they stray from what made them successful in the first place.

Big work is a different animal altogether, from the slam-it-in-a-vise-and-go type of work.

I'm not saying you can't do it... I know you are an intelligent, driven guy, I'm just saying, be careful.

There is likely a reason you are getting "pushed into it"... and it's probably because the shops currently doing the big work for these customers are telling them no... and doing the jobs properly with reasonable timing... I've been there... big work is a high pressure game.

If you give this bigger work a go... good luck... but surround yourself with excellent machinists, because mistakes on the big stuff can wreck you.

JM2C

[Bob W.]

Anyone know if these bigger machines can do off-center turning as shown in the video?

 

 

[Bob W.]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:21 AM, Reko said:

This is a red flag to me.

I've seen good shops have major problems ( bankruptcy/ out of business ) when they stray from what made them successful in the first place.

Big work is a different animal altogether, from the slam-it-in-a-vise-and-go type of work.

I'm not saying you can't do it... I know you are an intelligent, driven guy, I'm just saying, be careful.

There is likely a reason you are getting "pushed into it"... and it's probably because the shops currently doing the big work for these customers are telling them no... and doing the jobs properly with reasonable timing... I've been there... big work is a high pressure game.

If you give this bigger work a go... good luck... but surround yourself with excellent machinists, because mistakes on the big stuff can wreck you.

JM2C

I get it and it makes me nervous as well.  A lot of this is being driven by the customer and they will be handling the financial aspects.

[Bob W.]

Are there turning equivalents to the 5-axis functions of TCP, TWP, and WSEC?

[YoDoug®]

2 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Are there turning equivalents to the 5-axis functions of TCP, TWP, and WSEC?

In the Okuma there is;

TCP for 5 axis milling

Tilted work plane for 3+2 milling

B-axis contouring for turning contouring with the B-axis

[Bob W.]

Just now, YoDoug® said:

In the Okuma there is;

TCP for 5 axis milling

Tilted work plane for 3+2 milling

B-axis contouring for turning contouring with the B-axis

Right, but for tuning.  The video above shows a machine turning a feature off-center with the cutter following the wobble in one axis.  What if it were turning a disc that was off center and slightly canted.  This would require the turning insert to be moving in two axis, maybe three.

[Bob W.]

The application would be if there was an existing impeller that needed to be modified to within tenths.  The only way to do it other than spending hours setting it up would be to probe it and apply these functions to the turning.

[Bob W.]

I just spoke the a Mazak AE and their machine will not do eccentric turning apparently.

[YoDoug®]

1 minute ago, Bob W. said:

The application would be if there was an existing impeller that needed to be modified to within tenths.  The only way to do it other than spending hours setting it up would be to probe it and apply these functions to the turning.

Okuma does have the option for horizontal lathes so I would think they could do it on a VTM style. However, those off center turning functions are normally not the greatest for roundness. You would probably not be able to hold tenths. Your best bet would be a good old fashioned manual four jaw chuck and an indicator if you need to dial in that kind of runout. 

[jlw™]

On 6/25/2019 at 5:21 AM, Reko said:

This is a red flag to me.

I've seen good shops have major problems ( bankruptcy/ out of business ) when they stray from what made them successful in the first place.

Big work is a different animal altogether, from the slam-it-in-a-vise-and-go type of work.

I'm not saying you can't do it... I know you are an intelligent, driven guy, I'm just saying, be careful.

There is likely a reason you are getting "pushed into it"... and it's probably because the shops currently doing the big work for these customers are telling them no... and doing the jobs properly with reasonable timing... I've been there... big work is a high pressure game.

If you give this bigger work a go... good luck... but surround yourself with excellent machinists, because mistakes on the big stuff can wreck you.

JM2C

Idk how big we're talking here but you never get setup pieces on $50k pieces of stock or $600k weldments.

I left my last job over this stress.

[crazy^millman]

31 minutes ago, jlw™ said:

Idk how big we're talking here but you never get setup pieces on $50k pieces of stock or $600k weldments.

I left my last job over this stress.

I guess the $7 million part that go to the next parts making a $100 million assembly is not fun either. 

[Thad]

...and here I thought it sucked if I scrapped a part and had to go to the stock rack and saw cut another piece of D2. 

[JoshC]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:21 PM, Thad said:

...and here I thought it sucked if I scrapped a part and had to go to the stock rack and saw cut another piece of D2. 

I  have always loved small parts for that reason, if i make a mistake (which never happened) I could grab a piece of stock off the stock rack with no one being the wiser that i made any mistakes in the first place Haha. Or another trick i loved is to make a few extra parts on orders that i knew would likely return and keep them in my toolbox, then next time i got the job it was already completed before i began which gave me extra time on the job card to make me look better and faster than i actually am. Guys running huge million dollar parts do not have that luxury of course. 

[Newbeeee™]

^^^ Josh, you working in Aerospace...  

 

[JoshC]

34 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

^^^ Josh, you working in Aerospace...  

 

no, the shop i worked at did not have any aerospace parts or customers and now i am working for a Software re-seller so i don't make many parts anymore :(, other than an occasional government job but rather I just assist with a lot of mastercam parts for toolpaths, etc. but don't run many parts anymore with where i work now. 

Why do you ask do you do that for aerospace parts or something?

[Newbeeee™]

1 hour ago, JoshC said:

Why do you ask do you do that for aerospace parts or something?

Sorry - my attempt at humour!

What you described doing is the BIG no-no in aerospace or any place where traceable material is required.

[mkd]

On 6/26/2019 at 2:40 PM, Bob W. said:

The application would be if there was an existing impeller that needed to be modified to within tenths.  The only way to do it other than spending hours setting it up would be to probe it and apply these functions to the turning.

Heidenhain has a cycle 292 Q560=1 for interpolation turning that can be executed on a 5th axis plane. And they have a high accuracy mode for such.

Q560=0 for a ball endmill.

both run off the same 2D profile and same basic canned cycle.