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New yasda 650 microcenter.


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  • 2 weeks later...

Decimal places mean diddly. The real question is, what is the positioning accuracy and repeatability? I'd guess it is about a Micron.

My Makino have 4 decimal place in metric, but repeat at a micron, TP is slightly worse.

Yasda is on my short list for my next machines, along with Roeders, Roku Roku etc.

 

Mikron/Agie is not in the same class.

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1 hour ago, Sticky said:

Decimal places mean diddly. The real question is, what is the positioning accuracy and repeatability? I'd guess it is about a Micron.

My Makino have 4 decimal place in metric, but repeat at a micron, TP is slightly worse.

Yasda is on my short list for my next machines, along with Roeders, Roku Roku etc.

 

Mikron/Agie is not in the same class.

Sticky - you dumped your Mats?

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I'm down to just one Mats HMC FMS.

Switched my line of work to mostly injection molds. Bought some Makinos - decent machines, worst company on the planet to deal with.

I'm looking at Roku Roku, Yasda and Roeders right now for electrodes and precision hardmilling.

Possibly a Grob cell for mold base work.

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On 8/19/2019 at 12:20 PM, Sticky said:

Mikron/Agie is not in the same class.

I don't think that is an objective statement, as the competition is a close second to Mikron.

5x faster rapids than this yasda . yes not a typo.

non-cast iron construction.

100 nano meter resolution

120/220/300 tools? no problem

parallelized robot  automation under one roof? no problem.

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1 hour ago, mkd said:

$what's something like that run?

700-1mil depending on size and options.

30 minutes ago, mkd said:

I don't think that is an objective statement, as the competition is a close second to Mikron.

5x faster rapids than this yasda . yes not a typo.

non-cast iron construction.

100 nano meter resolution

120/220/300 tools? no problem

parallelized robot  automation under one roof? no problem.

Mikron spindles are in the +/- .001 inches type of range.

Fast rapids mean lots of axis thermal drift, there is a reason the really accurate machines have rapid speeds half the speed of production machines.

Resolution means nothing if the axis are growing all over the place.

They aren't even close to the same build class.

I'm not saying they are bad machines, but they are not 1 micron machines.

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21 hours ago, Sticky said:

700-1mil depending on size and options.

Mikron spindles are in the +/- .001 inches type of range.

Fast rapids mean lots of axis thermal drift, there is a reason the really accurate machines have rapid speeds half the speed of production machines.

Resolution means nothing if the axis are growing all over the place.

They aren't even close to the same build class.

I'm not saying they are bad machines, but they are not 1 micron machines.

Yes, well that's why good sales guys are important. Gotta get the right blend of options. High accuracy models have slower rapids etc. I've never got more than .0002" tool-setting discrepancy on some of their lower-end machines. Meaning fire up the machine, set the tool in the laser, run 48hp spindle at 18,000 rpm for 45+ min then retest. I'd say you might to take a second look but i can see that'll be like asking a Democrat to vote for Trump. :rofl:

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On 8/23/2019 at 10:30 AM, mkd said:

Yes, well that's why good sales guys are important. Gotta get the right blend of options. High accuracy models have slower rapids etc. I've never got more than .0002" tool-setting discrepancy on some of their lower-end machines. Meaning fire up the machine, set the tool in the laser, run 48hp spindle at 18,000 rpm for 45+ min then retest. I'd say you might to take a second look but i can see that'll be like asking a Democrat to vote for Trump. :rofl:

 

We were talking about micron class machines, that means LESS than .001mm, not +/-.005mm(.0002").

Nobody does real micron work in inches.

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  • 5 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/21/2019 at 2:59 PM, Sticky said:

I'm down to just one Mats HMC FMS.

Switched my line of work to mostly injection molds. Bought some Makinos - decent machines, worst company on the planet to deal with.

I'm looking at Roku Roku, Yasda and Roeders right now for electrodes and precision hardmilling.

Possibly a Grob cell for mold base work.

I'd also take a gander at Kern if you are looking for the best quality. Not sure how their service/support is across the pond though...

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1 hour ago, Sticky said:

Kern is pretty sweet, but they don't usually get used for graphite stuff, and I don't want to be the test rabbit.

I think for electrodes it is going to come down to Roders and Sodick. No ballscrews is certainly the future for high speed milling.

Maybe a dumb question, but with both Mitsui Seiki and Kern, couldn't you just Mill the cavities to size and finish, and negate the burning altogether? (Certain features aside of course.)

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On 10/4/2019 at 7:46 PM, Colin Gilchrist said:

Maybe a dumb question, but with both Mitsui Seiki and Kern, couldn't you just Mill the cavities to size and finish, and negate the burning altogether? (Certain features aside of course.)

For certain features, sure. But many features are burned not just complexity, but surface finish as well. More molds have EDM texture than polished finishes by a country mile.

I still mill as much as I can, but burning really does make life easier, even though it is slow. It is easy to do sub 5 micron total work with good edms. Doing sub 5 micron total work with mills requires a lot more skill, and a lot more stress.

 

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39 minutes ago, Sticky said:

For certain features, sure. But many features are burned not just complexity, but surface finish as well. More molds have EDM texture than polished finishes by a country mile.

I still mill as much as I can, but burning really does make life easier, even though it is slow. It is easy to do sub 5 micron total work with good edms. Doing sub 5 micron total work with mills requires a lot more skill, and a lot more stress.

 

Thanks for the good points and sharing your rationale. Every day is a school day still...

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