3 minutes ago, BBprecise said:

You need to use those offsets! Once you are comfortable using them, tell your boss you need an hour or so to train the boys how to use them then start spitting out those codes. You may get a lot of questions that 1st week, but after that it will be smooth sailing.

We have 2 Mazak 5x vertical mills, 1 Mazak vertical mill with a 4th axis, a Mazak HQR 100 (dual spindle, dual live turrets), 5 horizontal mills (multiple brands) all with Fanuc controls, 2 vertical turret lathes and 7 slant bed lathes, and 1 old HAAS vertical mill. We currently have 3 programmers, but we handle some fairly complex parts as well. When I was the only programmer we had 4 vertical mills, 2 horizontal mills, 4-5 slant beds and 3-4 vtl's. Granted we usually had repeat work that would keep at least half of the machines out of my hair, but not always.

Mazak mills can be a little tricky when using CDC, well in adjusting them in the control and you want to make sure they are all set up the same way. If you have some Fanuc controlled mills you'll want to make both controls behave the same as much as possible. We don't use wear comp and only use diameter comp instead of radius. Hence CDC and not CRC.

Any questions with the Mazak's give me a holler, I'll help any way I can. A couple of the guys here have shops with Mazaks and I'm sure will help with any questions.

Maybe the way I taught myself isn't the best way to do it, because it seems like using tool offsets could get very messy. I also am not sure I'd be able to train the other guys here, they are stuck in their own ways, and I have only been here a year. I have some say though because my dad has worked here for 25 years but he is also one of the ones stuck in his own way and he thinks using tool offsets would be too much of a headache. 

As far as comparison in machines, you have much more going on. ALL of our machines are Mazak vertical mills with only 3 Axis, besides the wire edm. 

I just am lost as far as trying to figure out how to help out this shop with productivity, especially when I feel that most here won't accept change. 

On 10/20/2022 at 1:29 PM, neurosis said:

 

We have six verticals and one horizontal and I've been the only programmer at this shop for 20 years.  Over half of our work load is new jobs and a lot of those are one off parts so there is a constant stream of programming going through here.  I don't know what type of work you do or what the quantities are, but if I were a shop owner with 9 mills, unless we were running all molds or prototype work, I couldn't justify 7 seats of Mastercam and 7 programmers.  That sounds like a strange precarious environment.

I'm surprised that nobody at the shop you work for has taught you how to use tool offsets?  I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that shop for a few weeks.    

Good luck to you. You're getting some good advise in here. 

I for some reason never saw this reply. Sounds like you have a similar shop. You could say we do prototype work of sorts. Most of our work is parts to be used together to make machines/automation. Sometimes those parts don't fit properly together and we have to modify or remake them.

I want to be able to help my owner save money by getting rid of at least a couple seats of Mastercam but I am just not sure how well that could work out. I brought up to him about letting me program parts from home in spare time and that was going to be my initial test on having one programmer. 

As far as tool offsets go, no one in my shop knows how to use them. Last week after reading some of the comment I decided to teach myself. I figured it out but now if I were to use it in my programs, and other people used my programs they might encounter problems so I probably just won't use them. 

I wish I could have someone experienced from another shop to be a fly on the wall to see specifically how we do things and give ideas but sadly not realistic.

Thanks for your advice though.

35 minutes ago, AHarrison1 said:

Sounds like you are going to have to do some trial and error with A test block.

I did just that, I understand it more now. I think I can comfortably work with tool offsets. not sure if it'll be easier or less of a headache for what we do at the shop but I at least understand it.

27 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

program in master cam to nominal .74975 with wear comp on.

run with zero comp in your table on machine

measure and insert the amount of comp to achieve feature nominal.

I say zero comp assuming you are using a carbide end mill that usually will run small, this tool will also need to be running true. this will allow you to run it as is and cut oversize and have room to comp to your feature size. (sneak it in).

The issue I am having is figuring out how to use tool offsets with our post. If I turn wear comp on it'll put in G41 codes. After that I am not sure what to do to actually use a tool offset.

23 minutes ago, AHarrison1 said:

The latter, Mastercam will have the tool Diameter. Your posted code would then have work piece dimsion plus half the cutter diameter.

Does the offset column effect tool diameter or length?

I am not sure, I tried looking into it. I couldn't find any specific information. My guess might be that it is both, depending on if you use a D or H in the program?

1 minute ago, AHarrison1 said:

In the tool offset page of the control there should be columns for dia wear offset and length wear offset.

When using wear control in Mastercam then there should be zero tool diameter set in control.

When adjusting for wear offset to remove more material a minus wear is entered into the wear offset for that tool.

So in your case you are measuring .751 then -.001(diametric) in entered into wear offset (This is on A HAAS control)

I don't know if the wear offset on your machine is set radially or diametrically.

So in my control's tool offset page, I have like 2000 sets of offsets, but they aren't described as anything. Just has a column for No. and a column for Offset, I can only type in the Offset column 

Then in Mastercam, are you saying that the tool diameter would just be 0? or if its a 3/16 endmill set at .1875?

I am trying to figure out how to utilize wear comp between Mastercam and our machines. I will give my situation:

I have a part where I have to machine a boss of .75 +0/-.0005, .093 depth. I used a 3/16 5 flute flat endmill carbide with AlTiN finish, we have a probe in the machine to measure tool diameter and length. I enter the exact diameter from my machine into Mastercam. I left .01 from my rougher, and did 2 passes at .005, 1 at .0001 and 1 spring pass. Material is 1044, I ran rpm at 10K, and feed at 25 ipm. Machine is a Mazak 410B-II with Mazatrol Matrix Nexus controller. 

The part comes out at .751, the way we rerun stuff now is we change the "leave on walls" parameter in the toolpath on Mastercam and repost until the measurement comes out good. We may do that a couple times. 

I want to know how to post out once and use wear comp to be able to make quicker adjustments and skip posting out multiple times. I have been trying to research but am finding a hard time researching my specific situations. 

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of great advice. I am going to keep learning as much as i can, including tool offsets because I feel those will be very helpful as far as rerunning programs. I also talked to my boss about programming parts ahead of time on my own time, for pay, I don't see our shop being able to only have one programmer, but if I program parts ahead of time, outside of shop hours, that should cut down time during shop hours. 

17 minutes ago, JParis said:

I think the biggest question I have, "are you the peron in the position to make these changes?" 

Change "can" start from the bottom but unless the top supports it, it's going nowhere....has to be ownership/management buy in...otherwise, it's shoveling xxxxe againt the tide

and I think you just ran up ugainst the "New member posting limit" for the day...

 

I am not the person to make changes, but i am someone who can suggest change and see where it goes. The boss is looking for ways to become more productive.

2 minutes ago, JParis said:

This should NOT have to be done....

Just from reading your more detailed information, there's a ton of room for improvement.

Now I am going to say this and I don't want you to think I'm being an arse, it's the reality of the your situation....

You need to change your mindset....that might be the single biggest hurdle you have....get online, YouTube, MMS, look at how other shops streamlined. A vise and softjaws will only take you so far...

You need to learn how offsets work...that is holding you back...

I agree, that is why i am here. I am trying to learn, I am new to this shop, Mastercam, and CNC machining in general. I only have 5 years experience in CNC machining, 2 of which was in a production shop as a button presser. 2 more as a setup guy in the production shop on OD grinders and Lathe. Only in the last year have I been working with Mastercam and more of the actual machining side. Still got a lot of learning to do, but I agree with you, there is better ways to do things here and I am trying to find that out. But i need to find the right way because its me (a younger guy) against older guys who have been doing things this way for 10 years. 

8 minutes ago, AMCNitro said:

What is the quantity per lot?  If you're running hundreds (or thousands) it helps to have setups that run many parts.  That allows you to have an operator run more than one machine.  Also, if you have parts with more than one operation, set it up progressively, that way every time you open the door you have complete parts.

Most of the time our parts we run are a simply contour and holes/slots. Only a couple parts at a time, under 10. But we do get bigger orders at times, and more complicated parts. As far as multiple operations go, we usually have one stop for x/y and can flip the part whatever we need in our vices. 

2 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

 

You have 7 programmers each with their own mill?

Basically, yes. 

6 minutes ago, JParis said:

I would look at your setup times as the likely biggest place to save time...if a spindle isn't making chips, it's costing you money.

Standardize as much as you can,. Modular fixturing in every application possible....there will be those that a vise and softjaws are just necessary.

Multiple parts at once, minimize those tool changes...

To my way of thinking, 7 seats of CAM for those machines tied up a lot of capital... get yourself a dedicated programmer who can work to a standard, Let the setup guys concentrate on gettings machines going and passing them off to operators. We have nearly 50 machines we program for, mostly using 2-3 seats...we have 6 of Mill 3 alone.

Without digging into "your" shoip specifically, there's likely a whole ball of wax that's being missed. 

JM2C YMMV

I like your points. I can give a little more specific information on our shop. All but two of our machines are set up pretty much the same way, vertical mills with two vices. This lets us get 99% of our jobs done. If we need any specific workholding, we either make a fixture thatll work in our vices, or find another solution at that point in time. The other two machines are bigger machines, still vertical, just have 5-9 vices, and big plates to clamp parts to. The machines running two vices, is pretty much all they can have in them, three vices become too cramped and can make running parts off the sides difficult. We tend to run both vices if we have multiple parts in an order. A lot of the time though, we only have 1 or two pieces to the order and its usually just square up and put holes in them. 

I personally like the idea of have a programmer to cut down on cost of the seats we have, the biggest issue I have is we don't have a lot of parts that are "complicated" to program, so it may only take a couple minutes to program them. The other issue is if we do have a part, and something like a bore doesnt come out to size and need to adjust and rerun, the only way I can think of doing that easily is changing the parameters on mastercam and reposting. I can't figure out how to use tool offsets properly. 

I am making this topic to kind of get an idea of how other Job shops may be set up. A little information about our shop: We have 9 Mazak Vertical mills, and a wire edm. We currently have 8 guys running those machines, and 7 seats of Mastercam (one guy just runs the mill using Mazatrol or programs we post for him.) We run a plethora of jobs and materials. Sometimes bouncing a job between two people. We currently use a tool library that one guy created back in like X9, and only use 2 materials (6061 and A-2). This tool library, material library, and all defaults are saved on the server and used by every Computer. 
Anyone have any ideas on if there are ways to improve our productivity, besides just running two machines per guy. Running two machines per guy works well if we are running something that will take a while. Most times thats not the case. We have thought about the idea of only having a couple guys program parts then just have guys only run machines, but we are thinking that would be a hassle with smaller orders or if there has to be offsets made. 
If there are any ideas as well about tool libraries, making them better/more efficient. What we have works now, but it might be outdated and I feel like improvements can be made specifically with organization. We don't really use one brand of tooling, or have a tool crib. We find that default material and tool library just doesnt seem to work right, feeds and speeds are always messed up. We have it set up where if we import a tool, itll work but its not for every application.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.