Has anyone got a sketch or picture of one of these fixtures to be set up by the toolroom guy? The ball lock pallet swap setup makes perfect sense, and I can see how miteebites can increase density of parts if you've got a bunch to run. And I can see some advantage in being able to fixture parts on the side of a fixture as well as on top. But as for setting up a second and third op where the part isn't a nice neat rectangle anymore, and where it has to be held on finished surfaces, I'm not seeing how to get there. With the vise of course I know how to get where I need to be since I've been doing that for years. Thinking in a new direction may not be as easy as saying "work smarter" and suddenly doing that, heh. Forgive me for being obtuse but I still can't visualize how the miteebite setup can be as flexible as a vise. edit ---> just downloaded the Miteebite catalog, I think I see some stuff in there. Still appreciate more input from you guys who have done this stuff though.

Cool stuff. We do have two machines that can set their own tools, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to get up to speed on those. They are DMG 5 axis mills with Heidenhein controls. They work well and have a ton of great features but our support is seriously lacking, especially since DMG and Mori merged or whatever they did. I'm afraid we'll have to figure that out on our own. Those machines can be a challenge since it seems like you have to know the secret handshake to get into the menu you didn't know about to find the option to set up the routine to do what you want. Well maybe I'm exaggerating, but those machines can be challenging. Uh, last time we had a service guy out here he didn't know how to check the alarm history, oh boy! Standardizing tooling is another thing I've just begun to look at. We've always bought whatever tools to suit whatever job and stuck them out whatever was required. I'm looking at getting specific cutting tools that will allow us to use tool part number XYZ123 with holder part number ABC321 and stickout dimension of x.xx". That will allow me to keep that tool setup with the speed, feed and depth of cut in the Mastercam tool library instead of just putting in whatever seems appropriate at the time. Should simplify things for both programming and for the tool setup guy right there. I'll also have to put some more thought into the standard fixture possibilities. Mitee bites? I've only used the ones that look like an U-channel with a wedge in the middle to spread them out. I cut basically the part shape into a plate, then used my mitee bites to lock the part into the pocket. That's clearly not what you did with your standard setup. The only thing I can visualize from the description is mitee bite eccentric hex clamps pushing the stock against dowel pins in your plate. But that's not going to hold a piece of stock for any kind of decent cut... I might need a sketch or something to see how you set stuff up on the plate. I never heard of those ball locks before but found them with Google and they look great. I'll probably go shopping for those soon after I get my mind wrapped around this fixture design.

We have looked at our processes and made some improvements such as how and where the tools and collets are kept etc, but honestly probably not enough. We've also tried to standardize our tool libraries but between all the flat and bull end mills we use, and of course the taps, each with the corresponding drill etc, leaving a standard set of say 10 tools in the 24 tool machine mostly just seems to reduce our tool capacity. Maybe with a tool crib scenario though, we might not need to worry about keeping certain tools in the machine. We're supposed to be getting a stockroom clerk, or maybe we're working creating the position and I may be able to parlay that into a combined stockroom/tool crib position. We currently have no tool crib, the tools are out on the shop floor in a centrally located setup station. We'll also want to get a tool presetter for the stockroom/tool crib guy, which I've been thinking about for a while already and would consider a prerequisite with the horizontal machine anyway. I really like the idea of packaging the complete job and rolling it out to the machine. We've made some attempts along those lines but nothing quite as streamlined as that. John, if you're able to share any detailed info about what kind of standard fixturing you were able to come up with and how to automate the setup process I'd be very interested. Currently we run most of our stuff in Kurt vises and try to keep the setup as simple as possible. My standard work instruction appearing in the first lines of comments in my NC programs typically look something like this: 1.0 x 3.0 X 4.5 stock flat in vise .80 min above vise jaws XY0 stock center, Z0 to clean up top And subsequent sides will typically also be vise setups with descriptions for part orientation and location. If the part doesn't seem to lend it's self to an easy vise setup after the first operation I'll try to run it on the 5 axis mill to eliminate the additional setups as much as possible. Pretty much anything weird shaped or having non-perpendicular features will go on the 5 axis machine to eliminate complicated fixturing as much as I possibly can. We also have just installed Vericut this week and are trying to get the training scheduled so we can get that up and running, which we expect to help a lot on the shop floor. It can't fix stupid things like the guy loading up a 1/4" tool in place of a 3/16" (yes, he did!) but for the guys who pay attention to what they're doing, at least they will have a bit more confidence in the programs coming out of the office and hopefully we'll be able to relieve them from babysitting the first part on every job. And our manpower problem is really strangling us right now too. For four 5 axis mills, five 3 axis mills and 3 lathes - two with live tools and one with subspindle, we've currently got only two good setup guys, plus two guys who can set something up if you give them *all day* and one sometimes helper. That's just the obvious crippling problem that we've been trying to resolve. After months of looking we finally have two promising looking applicants to whom we've made offers. Hopefully those guys will accept and turn out to be as good as they seem. As for the actual horizontal strategy though, I'm a bit confused. I remember a few years ago having a discussion about batch sizes on horizontals and it seems like there was strong support for low volume work on horizontal machines. Granted I just started this topic yesterday but with 220 views I'm not seeing the kind of support I expected. I guess that's actually a good thing really. After all, what good does it do ask questions and get the expected answers? Might as well not ask if that's the case... I do still want to pursue the horizontal for several reasons but maybe I'll lower my expectations a couple notches and also will attempt to do some better stuff with what we've got. I really appreciate all the thoughtful input. You guys are great.

Thanks Del. And I don't mean to mislead anyone but I've been on and off the forum for years. The name I used most was Nosserov and after that maybe I had something with a 65 or a 67 in it. I don't remember what logons I've had but with the email changes I've been through it was just a lot easier to re-register than to try to retrieve the old info. Maybe since I'm using my real name and workplace I'll be able to remember this one!

Our job shop currently has four 5 axis mills, five 3 axis mills and a few lathes. We have five production guys, only two of whom are good at setting up machines... we're trying to hire some guys but having a hard time finding them. We're working a single shift with a fair amount of overtime and not really keeping up very well. Also we have a few customers who would really like to send us more work. Most workpieces are aluminum and less than 12" on the longest dimension. The vast majority of stuff that goes on the 5 axis machines is 3+2 work with non-perpendicular features that could run on three axis machines but would kill us on setup and fixturing. Most of our jobs are only 1-5 pieces with an occasional 100 pc order and more recently we have had some orders of 2-3 thousand pieces. We can have probably have several more of those large orders if we can increase our production capacity. What I'm thinking we want to do (in addition to hiring more guys) is get a horizontal such as a Makino A61nx with 134 tools and 4 or 5 pallets. The idea would be to program as much as possible to the library of tools kept in the machine, use a probe to locate and set fixture offsets, and to inspect parts and comp tools, and if possible capture data for first article inspection reports. We would also program all deburring passes on the machine to minimize the need for operators to handle the parts. The basic idea would be to make the setup guys job as quick and easy as possible and have his guys just load and unload parts and fixtures on the tombstones during the day and keep the machine running round the clock. I think I'll be able to handle the programming and I have Vericut so I can prove everything out before sending it to the machine, and best of all I've got a good programmer who has been doing a good job of keeping stuff going while I screw around with other stuff. Our bottleneck at the moment isn't with programming. Probably the biggest obstacle I've got though is I've basically grown this shop from a manual mill and lathe in my garage and I haven't worked at other shops to get much experience beyond what I've figured out on my own. The ideas I've got about the horizontal machine are mostly from stuff I've read here on the forum and in Modern Machine Shop over the years. Not to say I'm in a total vacuum, but most of the guys I've worked with have either been from small shops or have just had machine operator type positions so they've never had much input on our process. So does this sound like a sensible direction to try to move our shop? I expect it's going to take a lot of work to get the lights out operation going, but is it really something that requires a whole team to realize? Are there other ways to increase our capacity that might be far better suited to our kind of operation? I've been using Mastercam since version 7 and have been on and off the forum over the years so I know a lot of you guys really know your stuff and I respect and appreciate your input.