14 hours ago, Watcher said:

You wouldn't believe if I told you the whole thing...

Are you saying I'm calling you a liar?

3 hours ago, gcode said:

Mastercam has 2 suites of 5X toolpaths..

There are legacy Mastercam toolpaths like 5X drill, 5X circle mill, swarf, project, and  multisurface that have been in Mastercam since V6 or V7

With the original X release, Mastercam added the ModuleWorks 5X suite. and Machine Sim.

Many CAM packages license ModuleWorks toolpaths.

Some use the full arsenal, some just license a few so they can say they are 5X  capable.

I don't know what 5X capabilities Gibbscam may or may not have

 

 

 

So Mastercam was 5 axis before 5 axis was cool, and well before ModuleWorks was founded (2003). In fact, it says it was created to develop the plugin for, wait for it... Mastercam! LOL.

I was talking $#!? on a Gibbs forum about moving to Mastercam when we move to 5 axis machining and got shot down by someone claiming they both use the same engine, kernel whatever.

Is that true?

If so, wow.

7 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Yep, the GibbSCAM snobs wi be howling like the rest of us in no time.

 

Snobs?

Hmph, yeah, in a way I guess. LOL.

57 minutes ago, newbeeee said:

Oh you'll HAVE to like it.

It's the future...

I suppose you're right. The software is getting smarter so people don't have to.

I need a nap.

1 hour ago, newbeeee said:

Have NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fear

Ribbon interface coming to GibbsCam on a 'puter near you soon!

Where's that damned unlike button...

2 hours ago, civicegg said:

Doesn't sound like a software problem.... 

At this point it's not. It's an old garage shop mentality trying to join the 21st century. Volumill is their go-to path no matter what the geometry. Drives me bonkers. They're starting to see how much faster things can go but it's like pulling teeth. They just don't want to move out of their comfort zones.

1 hour ago, BenK said:

To my point, its really how the programmer applies the path. The largest metal removal rate I have ever seen in aluminum was using a Dynamic path (Mastercams Volumill equivalent) and a 2.00" square shoulder mill. Saying you should never use it is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

This. This! A thousand times this! And to your point, I didn't say they should never use it. They use it way too much when doing simple square outlines etc.

12 minutes ago, JParis said:

A bit of an over generalization, no?

No.

On 5/19/2017 at 11:56 AM, mkd said:

had a Varimill running a SS job circa 2005. It lasted the entire job, so i asked the distributor about a lease option.

Varimill rental program FTW!!!

On 5/19/2017 at 0:47 PM, BenK said:

27% air cutting time is a lot.

That's what I'm saying! And like I said, when I walk by a machine and see it running volumill in stinkin' aluminum I get edgy.... throw a damned face mill in there and move that metal!

On 5/19/2017 at 3:29 PM, Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming said:

So you are not a Mastercam customer now?

I wonder if they have mad any improvements to the Volumill tool. it used to be an add-on for Mastercam at one time. Just like HSM paths from Autodesk started as a option for Mastercam.

No, not a customer now. We're using Gibbscam. (Yea, I know, don't rub it in meh face mkay?)

I'm sure they have. And I haven't touched MCam for years so I'm not up to speed with what they're up to. Hearing some, um, interesting(?) stories about 2017 and the ribbon bar. Lots of power users seem to be upset that they've been kicked to the curb in favor of book-smart kids that want something simple, not powerful. But I digress. I'm trying to convince the company to move away from Gibbscam. Been thinking about pushing towards Mastercam but will need to see if it's as bad as I've heard.

On 5/20/2017 at 1:53 AM, David Colin said:

To answer original question : Mastercam HST control tool engagement angle (as almost all dynamic toolpaths from any CAM). In Mastercam toolpaths parameters, you set a radial engagement but Mastercam will internally calculate equivalent engagement angle and will use that to generate its toolpaths (IMHO this info should be added in GUI).

Dynamics toolpathing goal is to maintain a constant hm value for each move during toolpaths. There is 2 main ways to achieve it: maintaining a constant tool engagement angle for every point in toolpaths or adjusting feed according to engagement angle.

I used Volumill a few years ago with MastercamX3 addon then with stand alone Nexion versiin but it's probably been greatly improved now. I d say Volumill 'mainly' use engagement angle to generate its toolpath (but not only) then adjust feed to maintain hm.

Mastercam is tool engagement all the way. This is why in tighter corners it almost generates spring passes as radius toolpath is near tool radius (perhaps it should lightly increase tool engagement angle and reduce feed in that circumstances? It s up to CNC to experiment and check what is more productive or will offer a better tool life). I still dislike the way it manages first pass on outer corners of a square stock (it seems to overload tool increasing radial engagement) but if you check it, you will see it maintains tool engagement angle. I also checked Mastercam dynamic toolpaths with Vericut Optipath, asking it to maintain chip thickness (modifying feeds if needed) and it will do almost nothing on these toolpaths. So I d say that Mastercam HST, even if they need to be improved in certain circumstances (mainly thin walls), are pretty reliable and consistent.    

Thanks David. I'll print this out and use it as a reference next week when the rep comes in.

That's what we're going to do. He's going to bring a few different types. Mayhaps I should have Dr. Mengele come in on the same day to go to bat for the Varimills, just to make it even. 

15 hours ago, civicegg said:

I think he was saying that the total aircut time for an average volumill tool path was 27% of total time, not that its faster than Mastercam by 27%. 

Yes, that's what I was saying. Total air time cut = 27%. NOT that it was 27% faster than Mastercam. But Ron is correct in that the rep does not program day in and day out and probably is more clueless than clued when it comes to toolpaths.

Thanks for the input. I think it's time to have a Mastercam rep bring their laptop here and do a side-by-side vs Gibbscam on one of our parts that we haven't programmed yet.

Rep was in today from Emco trying to sell us their IP series EMs. I was relating an experience I had with Hannita Varimills over a decade ago and how they were some of the toughest endmills I'd ever used. He laughed and said he knows Jonathan (I affectionately refer to him as Doctor Mengele because of how he mangled metal) and that his IP series endmills will mill circles around the varimills. Has anyone here used both and can you validate that claim?

In Gibbscam they have Volumill as an add-on. It creates toolpaths similar-looking to the tricordial toolpath form Mastercam of old. A tool rep came in today and said the Volumill toolpath takes into account the cutter's engagement and that Mastercam's toolpaths do not.

Is that an accurate statement? 

He also said the air-cutting time of Volumill is about 27%. What is Mastercam's version of this type of toolpath and how does it stack up compared to 27%?

Personally, I cringe when I walk up to a machine and see it using Volumill on alum. 

We have not run any cast iron in these machines in the year I've been here. We do run a lot of Molybdenum, which has it's own set of issues but I don't think rust is one of them.

14 hours ago, Mick said:

 

There sure is more power in <insert your software here> than HSM

Even Bobcad ??? LMAO

8 hours ago, gcode said:

How does one get a draw tube stuck in a spindle

 

Ours rusted itself to the spindle. Was on a 12 year old HAAS. 

12 hours ago, Mick said:

 

HSM? As in InventorHSM or HSMWorks? That's strange, one of the local reps told me that software was capable of programming a U3000 twin spindle, twin turret, b axis mill turn. Surely a horizontal  with tombstones would be a walk in the park for such powerful software... *cough*

The 2.5 axis version of HSMWorks is "free". I heard the posts are open source and based on java. Haven't tried it though.

7 minutes ago, gcode said:

If you own a current version of Mastercam and Solidworks, you've already got MCfSW

All you have to do is install it.

We haven't moved from GibbsCam yet. This will be a huge selling point, though. I've looked at HSM for Solidworks (have not tried it) but I would be much happier to have MC in there!

24 minutes ago, htm01 said:

We were having trouble indicating the keyway broach square in our Haas Minimill. Here’s the solution:
When orientating the spindle to square up the broach we use an M19 code. We needed to move the position to indicate the broach square. When you use a whole degree you can do M19 PXXX when you need to go less than a whole degree you use an R example M19 R45.05 If you don’t use the R code the spindle will quiver and make indicating difficult. When we got this figured out we had very good success. 

Wow! That's incredible. Thanks for sharing. Will make life much easier going forward. 

7 minutes ago, gcode said:

I use MCfSW mostly to build tooling and fixtures.

It is an excellent tool for this because tooling and fixtures are always changing and keeping both the CAD and CAM in SW

is  a great time saver and makes editing the fixture and running "what if" scenarios"  much easier.

I would use it for production  parts more, but I am the only SW user here, and the rest of our staff would struggle with rev changes and edits

if I did production parts in MCfSW

That's an interesting take, gcode. Makes much sense, too. I've often move my CAD models from the CAM system to Solidworks to test fixturing techniques but it's always a PITA. This would make it a snap.

7 minutes ago, Ewood42 said:

I once saw someone broach a hole with a tap on a Haas...

On purpose !!! ???

LMAO!

57 minutes ago, Pete Rimkus from CNC Software Inc. said:

To answer the pricing question (a little), if you buy seat(s) of the standalone MC, you can use the MC license(s) to run MCforSW without having a MCforSW license.

That was perfect, and didn't seem so difficult. Thank you. 

21 minutes ago, kunfuzed said:

Just out of curiosity, what sort of situations do you picture a company who has both SW and MC already wanting to also have MCFSW?  My understanding is it's more for people comfortable with solidworks as a way to break into CAM.

For us it will be solids associativity, and the ability to design and program in the same seat. Considering you don't need a separate license if you have MC already, I think it's a great idea, (earlier mentioned limitations considered).

3 hours ago, JParis said:

Is your install on VMware or licensing?

A computer that meets Solidworks specs "should" perform reasonably well....

That of course if part specific......heavy duty parts require heavy duty hardware.

Not sure. We had it on a laptop then moved it to VMWare but I think they changed the licensing to do it.

2 hours ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

Just be aware that there are a few functions in stand-alone Mastercam that you can't do in Mastercam For Solidworks.

I haven't used Mastercam since the mid X's. Anything that stands out in particular? (Trying to convince the company to move to MC from GibbsCam since we're considering a 5 axis or a mill/turn)

Oh, and yes JParis. I have a quote for stand alone but would rather hear things like this from real users.

Good to know. How's the performance of MiS? Would I need special video or processor? We run Solidworks over VMWare (PCoIP) and it really sucks. This setup would prolly make that worse huh?