I was wondering how in the world could a carbide disc on the tool probe get worn out after 1-2 years of constant probing?

1-2 years??? Consider yourself lucky. I regrind mine every 6 months

got post tweeked and now those g values show up in program.will see how it cuts.

thanx to all for the help

I'm interested in knowing what you did on the post and what the code generated is. From my experience you have to mess with the E and the P quite a bit depending on the part shape and how much stock you leave if you really want to maximize G187...So I normally input with a "manual input" or by hand.

I'd think you would want to stick with how all the other machines are instead of having one machine an odd ball...

Ethernet is an option. RS232 isn't. You should be able to just run a RS232 cable and call it a day.

If, however, I was the one that dropped $1600 for the ethernet option, I'd probably want to use it though.

I've run TL1's and 2's with and without the turret. In fact, my shop was the beta site for the TL turret...and I was the guy to check it out. I must say first that I can't stand dorian tool posts. Although simple to use and they repeat (pretty reliably) to .001" I really just don't like em. They are weak, allow too much variation, can come loose, etc...and you can barely trust them for .001"

So I would go with the turret. I haven't seen one in years, but the first ones were painfully slow to rotate and you really had to watch where tools were but once you get a job running it is nice to not do the dorian tool switch dance for the rest of it. If you do get the turret, search around for guys that have come up with cool ways to do their coolant lines. It will make your life that much easier...and oh, if this is your first TL, get a raincoat.

we have 05,06 and 08 and its on the screen to "press origin before removing usb drive"

At the risk of getting WAY off topic...

You must have a newer version of the software than me.

origin while in list programs

Must be a newer machine feature. Mine's an '06 and there is NOTHING going on when you hit origin and nothing in the manual about USB's...LOL

For what it's worth, I never "safely remove hardware" when removing my USB drive, and have never had a problem. :shrug:

I'm with you for the most part...every now and then I get the urge to play it safe...

AFAIK...My Haas doesn't have a "Safely Remove Hardware" option so guess what I do...

1134 TOOLS! That is a huge tool hive

What year machine? I think the TLM changed a bit over the last 8 years.

are you really finishing faster at .005 vs .03?

I would answer "yes" if you are on a Haas. .010" even in aluminum and you can have measurable deflection at even remotely acceptable feedrates.

I was thinking for my next video I would run a mold on both machines. What I had in mind was a 12" x 12" aluminum mold. I plan to rough, semi finish, and finish. Before running the mold I would put a ring gage on the back left corner of the table and set a work offset to it. I would also set a reference tool in the spindle. After the mold is complete I would reset the work offset on the ring gage and reset the tool in the spindle noting the results (dimension changes). I will also note the cycle times. All roughing will be done in roughing mode (G187P1 for Haas, M251 for Makino) and all finishing will be done in finishing mode (G187 P3 for Haas, M250 for Makino). This would give a good indication of table drift in X and Y, and spindle growth in Z. Before I run this, are there any suggestions of what people would like to see? Any things I might be doing to make this unfair?

Just for the record, I add G187 all over the place to help speed things up or make things more precise depending on the toolpath. You have to if you want to maximize those two things on a haas. Otherwise, like mentioned, you are completely stalling the machine as it tries to hit its targets or you are completely cutting through your targets

Moving along pretty good. Is that in G187P1 (roughing) mode? Maybe my Haas is just a lemon?

I assume you are using G187 P... and E...? It is a little strange but I find I need to mess with both a bunch to get to where I need to be.

As far as it being a lemon...? No, they all work that way.

well the 8K on new spindle drive parts woulda royally p'd me off.

someone in this thread mentioned ball screw pitch differences between Haas models; the VM series having the finest pitch. this and that thick table would seem to conspire for slow accelerations that iv'e noticed on that model.

it would be interesting for someone with a modern SS haas to run your code to see the difference Haas to Haas.

 

love the idea of the ring gauge to determine thermal growth. would it make sense to set it about the same distance from the part and the part roughly in the center of travel on both macines?

As far as my offer goes to run this on a late model VF3SS it still stands.

This would be a great test. I would love to see your results using your suggested parameters.

 

 

 

Roughing to even closer than .005" is easily attainable on a Makino. This has nothing to do with Mastercam. It has everything to do with Makino's algorithms for accel/decel control, 1000 block look-ahead, Super Geometric Intelligence. If the part is programmed properly, all tool deflection will be away from the part anyways. I have been running Makino's for 9 years and I cannot think of a single instance of a gouge, clipped corner or where something didn't clean up from roughing.

 

As for the HAAS, what I find laughable, is that the setting 85 you mentioned earlier, is set at .050 from the factory. I took HAAS service/applications to task about this and we ran a sample part, basically a pyramid where each z-level represented a different value for setting 85. The performance and feedrate difference between the levels was ridiculous. Sure, if you allow the machine to clip corners, it will maintain feedrate, however, when you set setting 85 to a value that is more realistic for real-world machining, the machine just dies on complicated geometry. The Makino doesn't really care. It just holds tolerance, Period.

I leave the default at P3 and .0001" for G187 and change it in the program. Since I do a ton of prototyping, the last thing I want is to have the machine cutting any corners that I may not think it will cut. This way, I am in control of how loose the thing runs.

My VF2 was pretty solid regarding thermal growth as well, and overall it was a much better machine than the VM3. I would have preferred to keep it and unload the VM3 a few years back but I just needed the travels. In my experience the VM3 is much less stable than the VF2 when it comes to long term accuracy. I was much happier with the performance on the VF2 for sure. Faster, more accurate, and more stable.

The VM3 is a noodle of a machine if you base it on footing size for travels, weight of machine for travels, overhang of the spindle based on the Y travel...etc. Nevertheless...what you say is pretty eye opening comparing it to the VF2. I guess simply being more compact allows the VF2 to shine over the VM3.

Here are some pictures. They show the width of the feet at the rear of the machines. They are both from my 40 X 20" machines. One is a Haas. The other one isn't.

X2 on the dovetail plate. Excellent post Josh.

I agree with "It is what it is"...or to put it another way..."It isn't what it's not"...

I second the drip pan.

I'd second the auto tool changer - I beta'd it when it was first introduced and as much as I liked it, it was made horribly out of square so mine was garbage.

Gangtools on them worked well.

I also hate Dorian (or any) manual tool posts. I don't know what they are spek'd to hold for tolerance but I wouldn't expect better than .001" when changing tools a lot.

All in all, they are a cool "better than a manual" type of lathe. I ran a 1 and a 2 for a while.

Oh - get yourself a rain slicker...

Ok now I'm curious how this makino would hold up against a Fadal!!

LOL - To bring back the "Ferrari vs Honda" argument - - - now you want us to compare a Ferrari to a Yugo?

Bob, thanks for these videos. If you ever want someone to run them (dry) on a VF3SS I would be happy to - for time comparisons. I'd be interested in seeing if there were any differences between the VM and SS.

Keep in mind, that you would also have a higher resale value on the Makino. Ever looked at the price of a used HAAS?

I tend to see super high priced used haas which seems to baffle me.

I am frustrated and embarrassed that the US doesn't offer anything better.

I will probably get beaten up for saying this but I just bought an American made 40x20 vertical called a Mazak

Would you say the VF2SS is a true high speed machine? I believed it and bought one.

Fool you once...

Would you say the VM3 is a true mold machine? I believed it and bought one of these too and I am not happy about it.

Fool you twice...

I do still own one Haas and my goal is to help others in the market make a more informed decision instead of just looking at $$$ and getting sticker shock.

I was fooled as well with the SS claims and like you won't be fooled again!

Good video btw...can't wait to see more. It will really open peoples eyes seeing the two machines literally side by side with the same tooling and programs yet quite different outcomes. The other thing to mention as you have illuded to is the real price. How much of a percentage difference was it? I believe that Haas comes in under 20 percent different than the (way way better) competition. When Haas used to be 45-55 percent less that was something. 10-20percent....not so much

Another new issue that popped up with X6 that I haven't seen in X5

I swear I've seen that (invalid arc) in X5. Maybe only once though...

For question 1 you need to address the machine definitions. If memory serves me it is where you set up where the turret is in regards to the spindle. You may just have the wrong tool...or check the tool setup box and you can manipulate the individual tool that way.

I never "officially" use the tailstock advance in mcam, but I think that is in the machine group properties by your stock and chuck parameters where you set up the tailstock parameters. It is pretty easy to use.

If you needed to do it manually, you could just do a "toolpath, manual entry" and put the codes there.