drafting is altering construction depths

[machinehead]

when i set the construction depth at .1000 and start dimensioning, i notice the construction depth changes to -.2983 but the drafting entites are still put at .1000

i guess this makes sense at some level because everything is obviously related to absolute zero. but when i'm done drafting the construction depth stays at the -.2983 level instead of returning to .1000.

this ends up causing problems, because if i need to do additional drafting and don't re-establish the .1000 depth, the dimensions end up at -.2983 (which is absolute -6966 and now displayed as the construction depth).

and if i continue again the new displayed depth will be -1.0949 and so on.

i don't have any previous X versions installed to check this on, but i wasn't running into this before now.

 

is there a drafting parameter affecting this?

maybe i set something differently in MU1 somehow?

 

my wcs origin is Z-.39829.

[machinehead]

hello.

 

 

hello.

 

 

hello.

 

 

is there anybody out there?

 

 

just blog if you can hear me.

 

 

maybe mr. waters was just having trouble with mastercam.

[machinehead]

c'mon people now, smile on your brother...???

[Superman]

Question- have you set your C & T plane the same as your WCS ? if you have , and then set your depth to 0.10, then 0.10 is displayed, your entities will be created at your required plane.

 

BUT, if you had your WCS to "Top" and the C/T planes to "New Top" or visa-versa, it may cause confusion

 

Access to the "View Manager" thru bottom toolbar , WCS button--- or C/T planes on the same bar

[machinehead]

yes, c and t planes equal wcs in view manager for all files. thanks.

[Jack Neelands™]

Ok Im trying to make some sense but cant figure out why its offsetting your dimensions to begin with....you set them to the depth you want and away you go...are you constructing in 2D or 3D?....that is the only thing that might knock things off on you that I can think of

[Superman]

Have you set your c-plane at the same point as your WCS ? ( I bet they are different )

 

For best results - your primary planes should remain untouvhed, work from copy's of those planes and alter their origins, offset numbers etc, ( leave "Top" as main at the 0,0,0 origin , make your 1st set-up as "Copy of Top" [ rename as "Setup1" for example ]).

 

If you keep altering the primary planes, any subsequent set-ups will stuff up- always -

[machinehead]

thanks for your help, i wasn't around for a few days, so sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

 

 

view manager reads as follows:

 

C T D boxes are all selected for the FRONT PLANE as you get when you click the '=' icon.

 

Origin Coordinates:

X 0.0

Y 0.0

Z -0.6657

 

only box checked is 'associative'.

 

in graphics window, 2D construction depth is set to .1000. Begin drafting. 2D construction depth says -.5657, drafting entities are located at .1000. Finish drafting, click green check mark. construction depth does not return to .1000, view manager has not changed.

 

I restored X2 and did the same exact step by step process. In X2,when i click the green check mark to finalize and exit drafting, the construction depth returns to .1000. This is where X3 is leaving the construction depth at whatever.

 

as i was doing this so i could describe it accurately, after the first 2 times, it didn't change again until i repeated the draft, line, draft thing a couple of times. so it is not doing the same thing every single time, but almost.

[machinehead]

Superman, if i get you right, you are suggesting some kind of workaround. While i am forced to use workarounds a lot anyways, this problem has only begun for me in X3. it worked fine in X2 as i posted previously.

I appreciate the suggestion and may even have to use it at some point, but i have a hard time settling for workarounds. If you have to make copies of all the planes you use, what's the point of having wcs.

Sorry, i'm just frustrated with features that worked better in older versions. shouldn't they work better in newer versions?

[Slydman]

quote:

---

...that worked better in older versions.

---

X2MR2SP1 is doing the samething as you described before.

 

I have never realized it before because i usually work with 3d and make the drafting directly onto the solid.

 

I don't see the advantage to make the drafting somewhere else than on the solid

[machinehead]

if the dimensions are below the geometry, you won't see them when you print it off. which is part of the problem here. if i don't realize the construction depth has changed, then print, i end up with a bad print and have to do it over. i have just always used .1. no other particular reason.

 

even if i do realize the depth has changed, i have to re-establish it before continuing and always have to be on guard for it changing. pita.

 

i'm going to give the 3d draft a try. maybe that will solve some of this.

[Jack Neelands™]

If you dont have any propriatory problems could you send me the file or an abridged version....im sorry I cannot reproduce this with anything I have here.

I have tried and still cant make it do anything like what you are describing even when changing views, Z depths or what not.....just trying to help

[machinehead]

on it's way, Jack. Thanks.

[Jack Neelands™]

tis on its way back and I lost

 

we need some real Mastercammers on this one and not a hobbiest like myself....JOHN!!!!!!!!!.....JAY!!!!!!!!!!!....gCODE!!!!!!!!!!!!...JAMES!!!!!!!!!

 

Need a little help in here

[Superman]

I think I've worked out what is happening.

 

You are currently altering the system "TOP" origin to be your "local" origin by putting values in the origin co-ordinate area. Thus you create the "light blue" axis lines on the screen.

 

Whem you create drafting entities, the depth value reverts back to the system "TOP" -(brown axis lines), as mastercam has to have some sort of reference point that is absolute ( fixed point in space )

ie. const.plane is set to 0.1 -- WSC set to Z-0.4

actual const.plane is Z-0.3 in system "permanent" origin ---when creating draft entity the plane jumps to Z-0.3 to create the entity, which is 0.1 above the WCS

 

The brown axis lines on the screen is that point in space, where all data is referenced from. As you have altered the WCS this is still the system "permanent" origin

 

Going back to my last post, what you are doing is workable, but in some instances may give problems.

 

I also assume you don't have solids, so moving the entities is not an option.( unless you create curves and surfaces and move them, then delete your solid ).

 

The proceedure I suggest is-

1. import your data

2. use your g-view to set the part in the orientation of your desired set-up

3. name that g-view as "SET-UP 1"

4. goto WCS manager, select that new view as your WCS and push "=", then place your origin, on that part

5. create your stock and set "set-up 1" as your stock origin in the op.manager

6. if desired, you can create new "primary views" (left,right etc. from this new WCS using the buttons down the LH side).They will automatically be created if they don't exist when called, you will be promted to re-name and give an origin when called.

 

My method -PROs

-this will give you greater freedom and less errors when setting the part up for later operations.

-give better understanding of 3D space and multi-axis machining

-analysing the part can be done in it's native co-ordinate system

-a modified part ( later issue ) can be imported as is, to overlay for checking / re-programming if needed, if the part is not moved

-any new view is referenced to the actual system origin and is independant

 

your method -PROs

-good for single operation set-ups

CONs

-all views must have their origins altered as well

-anything done in reference to the system origin will icrementally shift by the co-ords set for the WCS

-moving the "TOP" origin will alter all other planes and dirty all operations

-mastercam and/or the user may get "lost in space" ( Will Robinson where are you )

 

Hope this makes it clearer ( I do tend to waffle on )

 

Steve

[chipmagnet]

I know there are guys that DON'T want to hear this but here goes.

 

Mastercam is NOT even a good CAD tool, it is a CAM system that offers some "CAD" functionality. Over the years the CAD product has not really improved nor do I believe it ever really will, that is NOT the market they are working towards.

 

Can you get CAD stuff done in Mastercam, sure. You will have to do much extra work and fight some issues.

 

I am of the opinion, if you NEED a CAD, then use a CAD tool. If you won't or can not get one, then you're stuck fighting the CAD side of this product.

 

Sorry, just my nickel's worth for the day.

[machinehead]

superman. the way you describe wcs is the way i understand it too. was the alternate plane method self taught or did you learn it from a training class? i'm going to go ahead and do it that way for a while and see what happens.

what gets me is, this issue did not exist in X2. i drafted the same way in X2 and the construction plane stayed put. in X3, it is definitely moving.

 

i opened a session with a default config file and still had the same thing happen.

then i tried this out on another seat in the shop and it happened there too. so it's not something in the config or something with my install.

 

jack neelands tried it out on his system and the construction plane didn't change. are you using supermans method jack?

 

i'd be interested to hear how other people are using wcs as it applies to this discussion.

[Superman]

The way I describe is generic to most CAD systems, don't move the WCS of the system.

 

This is what would be taught to most students, always keep a fixed point of reference for any "local" WCS's you create, move the 1st and they all move, thus all your operations will "dirty"

 

I was able to re-create your "problem" in X2 by moving the base "TOP" origin to the part and then create a dimesion while watching the value in the construction Z level as I drag the dim. before placing it.

 

As I have solids, I move my part to the Top origin and position it as it would be for my major machining operations.( but I copy the "TOP", and use the new top as my "SET-UP 1" in my ops.

Any other planes would then be referenced and orientated from this set-up.

 

If the bossman comes and wants it put to a different machine ( it happens a lot ) it is as simple as creating a new WCS set-up for the new machine and setting that WCS in your machining ops

 

A good example

-job programmed for machine with A-axis, now to go to m/c with B-axis

-set WCS( set-up 1 ) active --(WCS , C & T set "=")

-rotate g-view 90 deg around Z and 90 deg around X ( part should now be in "Front" )

-name g-view as ( set-up B )

-alter m/c ops WCS to this new view and regen

 

90% of the work is done-just have to check that other side views are correct before posting

[machinehead]

superman, after using a copied plane method, i still got the same results. so i placed a call

to cnc. talked to a tech who informed me that this is a known bug and will be fixed for X4 due out in the summer.

thanks for your help fellas.