Other than the age of the hardware and size, are there any other shortcomings of an older system like this? This is a single level system and it is about 60' long. It is currently in working order and the machine runs fine as well. It is being replaced because the challenge of finding replacement parts and they are moving to a more productive cell. The replacement part issue would be mostly solved by updating the electronics/ control but it wouldn't solve hardware failure issues.

Not that I know of. One of my customers has a pair of them from that era, each with 4 machines, and they're booked solid 24/7. I think they're still running the old style cell control too.

I might be able to get the system for $50k. The cost of retrofit would be ~$80-120k and it includes new servos, a new Fanuc 30 series control, and new cell management software.

As long as those new servos, control, and cell management software also encompass any other proprietary xxxx that might be on the edge of going bad after 20 years of being doused in coolant and chips - I'd say go for it. If you end up with the whole thing plugged into your existing machine, full of pallets, and running reliably for under $250K, you're a quarter million dollars ahead of the game. The real bummer becomes the 60 tool magazine on your a51.

I'd say the lack of pallets puts a pretty major ding in the value. Having watched dozens of used systems like this go to auction (and used dealers) over the last decade - I can tell you the selling price is practically always the same (or less) than what the standalone machine would sell for. The real value of the system you were looking at, is that it would have included 24 pallets that still work with a current Makino. Without the pallets - the value is near nil, because an old A55D isn't worth a lot, and you've still got to pay somebody to take it apart, move it, and put it back together. (A guy on Practical Machinist bought an A55 Plus with a bad spindle for .99 cents in Washington, and parted it out)

That CNC Engineering retrofit looks like it could make a difference in the deal though. Have you heard back from them on price, and availability of replacement parts?

This thread needs more pictures. Don't Gcode us.

Familiarize yourself with the Xform-Project function. It probably doesn't get much play in any of the instructionals, because most parts in the instructionals are tailor made to work with the toolpaths they're teaching you.

Bitchin. How much did that set you back?

That's about 7000 cubic inches, so even if the machine has steam coming out of its ears at a paltry 100 cubic inches per minute, you'll still be able to rough the whole thing in 1.5-2 hours.

It doesn't have enough power to need a corn cob, so just go with something like a 2-3 inch Mitsubishi AXD cutter, and you'll be maxing out your HP at .125 doc.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing Colin was describing - but here's where I'd start - but I might also be misinterpreting the orientation of your part and RAH:

Make a TPlane that's coplanar with the frustum (LOL), ie, looking straight down at your cone from the top. Use surface finish contour with the arc filter on, which should give you perfect arcs all the way around.

Backplot the toolpath and save the backplot geometry to a new level.

Switch to whatever Tplane you're actually cutting with, and use Contour>3D, selecting your previous backplotted geometry. A little clumsy, but you get a perfect toolpath for the feature.

. only people making money is MFG.com.

That's about right. We were on their spam mail list for a long time, probably because of their affiliation with Modern Machine Shop. Sometimes they'd pick specific, big dollar RFQs and send them over as bait. On multiple occasions I told them, "Ok, let me bid that job. If I get it, and the customer pays, I'll give you $20,000."

The response is always, "Oh we can't do that."

Also, the way they calculate that astronomical amount of $$$$ being awarded, is an absolute farce. When "buyers" post an RFQ, they post an estimated annual usage. The actual RFQ quantities aren't the same as the EAU. So when Billy Bob posts his RFQ for his prototype hillbilly hand-fishin' rig, his estimated annual usage is 1,000,000 pieces. Then he awards the 1pc quantity to some sucker for $250, and never even actually pays (since he's planning on selling that prototype to pay for the prototype). That RFQ just added $250,000,000 to the "total" of work awarded through MFG.com.

There's no undercuts, so it should be no problem with Mill Level 3 if you just want to 3+2 it. Program one groove with whichever 3D rough and finish strategy tickles your fancy, transform>rotate the toolpath 8 times, and call it a day.

Depending on the material and what options your machine has, you'll most likely get better results with 3+2 anyways.

(Edit: this is assuming there is some allowable corner radius in the spot others already pointed out)

Attached is a short description of what the NTMA considers a "class A" shop.

Thanks for posting that. I hadn't seen it before. One of my customers is an A+ based on that. My shop is somewhere in the F+/D- range.

What do you work with this guy? Do you need to defend his lack of manners? Did he create this forum? Did he create the software? Do you NEED him to do your job? Are you his body guard? The fact of the matter is he was rude and i called him out on it now all his little forum groupies are coming to the rescue.

LMAO. Trust me, the reactions you're getting from people are all of your own doing.

Nobody is saying the STL problem is acceptable. People are pointing out the way to get your job done. A freakin' CNC Software employee even chimed in to acknowledge the problem and tell you it's being fixed. You can do the extra 12 seconds of work and move on with your day - or you can mash at the keyboard and rage about the "scam" being force fed to you for the next 2 months until X8 is available to you.

Edit to add: Third option - the beta program needs all types of users that use files in all types of ways. Sign up so you can get X8 early, then you can stop the stock model force feeding scam.

You called me ignort, and i do know how to use it, and make one, you just want to project yourself as a know-it-all and without fault at starting this, which in my travels means you dont (hence 20,625 posts). I've encountered you before anyway, your in cnc softwares pocket, and might as well be on the pay roll, you are ready to knife fight anyone that says anything bad about mastercam, and all you offer to me is crap, you act like your above people and if they havent programed for 35 years they are idiots, so keep your opinons to yourself and if you cant help go away.

Um, didn't you claim he must not understand your heartache, because he doesn't make big and complex parts?

Seriously dude, quit while you're behind.

You came in here and said "Ignorance is bliss" you call that help, you sir are a jack a@@ and if that is the help you are going to give keep it. The only reason things got heated is because of your attitude, the proof is on this thread, just read it.

LOL. He said "ignorance is bliss" in response to your outrage over being "force fed the stock model scam".

Bob, one other option would be to buy this:

http://www.machinesu...ils.cfm?ID=2637

...and just throw away one of the old A55s and put your existing a51 in there with it. Makino was smart enough to maintain pallet and machine compatibility throughout the years. One of my customers has a couple Makino 400mm MMCs, with A55 plus, A55 Delta, and A55e all in the same system. You could use the old machines for roughing, or for simple parts that don't need the large memory requirements of modern toolpaths, and run the demanding stuff on your A51.

You could probably get that entire cell for $100K less than buying another A51nx.

Edit to add - I just realized that cell has mismatched machines in it already, two A55 Deltas and one A55e.

Crazy machine. What kind of volumetric accuracy is to be expected on a machine that size?

Depends on the parts you're doing. I went through this same thing in the past. I'd go with the second machine for now, then put them both in one MMC when you need more capacity.

With the right parts and customers, the single machine with the pallet system will definitely outproduce the two standalones (assuming you're only running one manned shift). But when you factor in the other unknowns like rush jobs, setups that aren't going smoothly, jobs that use way too many tools, etc - the second machine is way less headache. Not to mention - there's a big upside to having duplicate capacity.

Couple things:

-Don't even consider a manual CMM. Even manual measurements taken with a DCC CMM will be xxxx, because of the vectors of your probe hits.

-Be prepared to deal with the worst software you've ever encountered, regardless of what brand you purchase.

-Go all out right from the start. Get a motorized probe head, and a stylus rack/changer.

-Get 10 years worth of costs (software maintenance, calibrations, computer maintenance, etc) in writing up front. I overlooked that and got a little surprise the first year when Hexagon wanted $4,000.

-Get at least a 700mm X and Y machine. Even for smaller parts, you gobble up a lot of travel with the indexing probe head.

We have a Brown & Sharpe with PC-DMIS CAD, and a PH-10 motorized probe head, and overall I like it. It's been dead reliable and still has as-new volumetric and linear accuracy. My only regret is not getting the stylus rack.

If I were in the market again right now, I'd want scanning as well. If you're not in a rush, wait until IMTS this year so you can look at everything. Check out Mitutoyo, Wenzel, Brown & Sharpe, and Zeiss. You can get a very nice, very accurate, fully pimped out machine for $100K or less.

Good call on the MD/CD/Post rename utility. I'd never seen that. Looks like it will work perfect.....except this is an X6 file with 500+ operations that I don't dare open/convert to X7. Anybody have the X6 MD/CD/Post rename utility?

I tried installing the X7 version in my X6 directory, but it didn't work. And now my X6 says "X7" on the title bar, even though it's still really X6.

Our horizontal post is set to output 3 trailing zeros instead of a decimal point on B axis moves - and we just got another horizontal that needs a decimal point. I can probably fumble my way through the format statement to get it back to outputting a decimal, but what's the easiest way to copy an entire machine def/control def/post?

The only thing that might not work, is the #750 may or may not be available. Worst case scenario is you just have to substitute "#750" in the above example, for some other #.

Another option is to just set a flag that the G10 has been run, that isn't unflagged until the tool length measurement is complete. That way, if the operator tries to do the same thing he did earlier, it will stop him.

I think #750 should be available on a Haas. Maybe one of our Haas users can chime in? Just add these exact snippets of code to the first tool change/measuring sequence, and go test it out.

/#750=1.

/G10 L10 P9 R-24.716 (3/8 BULL ENDMILL 0.02 RAD)

/M6T9

/G65 P9862 B3. D9. H.03 I.375 J.012 R.375 T9.

/#750=0.

IF[#750=1.]GOTO555

GOTO556

N555M00(YOU G10ED THE TOOL WITHOUT RUNNING THE TOOL MEASUREMENT, DUMMY)

M30

N556

Here's a quick explanation of what's going on:

The #750=1 is basically a flag that's saying "we're cycling through with block skip off". It'll stay set at 1 until the tool measurement is complete. If he lets the machine finish the measuring cycle, the very next line is #750=0. So that turns your flag back off.

When it gets to IF[#750=1.]GOTO555, that's just checking whether or not the flag is still set. The GOTO is a line number "N555". On line N555, you have a program stop, with a note to explain why it stopped - and an M30 afterwards just in case the guy hits cycle start again anyways.

If everything ran correctly and #750 was set back to zero after the tool measuring call, the machine will simply read straight through the "IF[#750=1.]GOTO555" line, and hit the next line "GOTO556". N556 is just the block number for the line after your alarm lines - so the "GOTO556" just jumps you ahead 3 lines and the machine continues on its merry way.

You'd need to add your own little macro after the Renishaw call in order to compare them. Are you familiar with macros? What brand machine and control is it?

Just skip the G10 at the beginning. Input that theoretical length into a variable instead.

#850=-24.716

After your tool measure cycle, just compare the tool length to #850, instead of using the tolerance call in the tool setting macro.

Not sure what machine you're using, but on a Mazak, your length for T29 would be in #60029. T30 would be 60030, etc.