laser tool touch off / high pressure coolant

[rich]

Hi all, We are going to be buying a Mori Seiki MV-653 vertical milling machine and was thinking about the different options that I want on this machine. I was wondering if anyone is using a laser tool measuring system for tool touch off and if you are what system are you using and what do you like about this system over the TLI style touch off pad. Is the laser worth the extra money? Also in consideration is a Chip Blaster high pressure coolant system model# GV-20. 1000 psi /20 gpm. does anyone have this unit on their machine so they can share their thoughts on this unit. thank you in advance for your imput.

[Chris Rizzo]

Chip blaster is great. ...esp. for materials where your generating lots of chips. How much do they get for it?

No exp. with laser, Renishaw system on the machine works so-so. Had some problems chipping cutters. I'd think laser would certainly be safer.

[robk]

Rich, you’re definitely on the right track. We are using Renishaw NC-1 non-contact (laser) tool probing package. I highly recommended it. One of our horizontals has the Chipblaster System(Model JV8-1000) and it’s a must for today’s tools. Other options you should consider is Part probe system (we also use Renishaw). The whole package ran us about 25K, but well worth every penny. It includes everything including custom macro B language (for that kind of $$ it better). Look into a good conveyor system and (depending what kind of work you do) as big of a tool changer as you could get. Extended work offsets, extended tool offsets, helical interpolation, as much memory as you could get (it costs less now than later).

Can’t go on any more. Time to go home now….

[Psychomill]

Chip Blaster is a must on just about any machine in my mind... so long as the spindle cartridge can hold the pressure. I've blown a few out in the past cuz they weren't rated for 1000psi and had to drop down to 700 or 800. Still better then the nominal pump that comes with thru coolant.

 

Not much info for the laser setter. We use external presetters. Although we do have Renishaw systems on our Makinos and Mazaks system works also.

 

+1 to RobK

[Lucky]

You will love the laser. Our machine has the Blum laser which cost about 10k. You can measure length, dia, corner radius, taper angle, etc. You can measure the tool while turning the same rpm you'll be using in the cut. This has the advantage of measuring the effective cutting diameter including runout. Matchup in Z between different tools running different rpm is perfect every time. Each flute on the tool can be measured individually if you desire. This can be useful for checking for damaged tools.

[Tim Johnson]

Buy your chipblaster from your local distributer. You'll save up to 50%. It was a 18,000 add on for our last hmc. We got it for 10,000 from ours.

[rich]

Rob, part probe is a definite. Right now we have a renishaw probe on our monarch vmc-150b and on our horizontals we have the M&H probes. When we bought the monarch in 1997 monarch was writing their own probe routines and they are pretty good. I dont know anything about renishaws probe routines, Are they easy to use? and do they have a number of different probing cycles to choose from? corner, edge, bore, boss part feature size verification ect? M&H does a pretty good job with this also and their customer support is excellent.

 

Keith, Thank you for your imput. I will look into the Blum laser. These are great selling points. If there is anything else that you are doing with it please let me know.

[Psychomill]

quote:

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Are they easy to use? and do they have a number of different probing cycles to choose from? corner, edge, bore, boss part feature size verification ect?

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Yes, yes,... yes, yes, yes, yes yes

 

Plus tolerancing, 4th axis shifting/alignment, data output for printing, G68,...,...,...

 

 

(Oh, and kitchen sink + wash and spin cycles )

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The place where I'm currently doing a Pallet Pool Turn-Key on Kitamura's has a Laser Probe System being installed currently. This will be my first experience with Laser TLM/TBD. It's a Blum. We also have a Blum Probe in there. Supposedly we have to turn out the lights in the machine to use the probe because of light interference I hope not.. That's pretty sad if that's the case. At my last company we had Renishaw's and we had sunlight shining inside a machine once and I was doing some probe experements with no problems. After years of using Touch TLM/TBD, I'm thinking that touch is a real drag especially if you're running small and or delicate tools. I've had issues with chips sticking to the face of the contact point. Laser will allow you to check a larger tool... seems to me like Laser is the better choice. If the Blum guy finishes the install before you make the final decision I'll fill you in.

 

I prefer Cool-Jet over Chip Blaster. I've had experience with both and the Cooljets come already interfaced for the Mori. Chip Blaster will have to send a guy out there to sew together some spagetti. Cooljet Not quite the GPM of the Cooljet but they have other models.

 

JMHO

[rich]

Thanks James, please do get back with me on that. We have a little time as you probably know with mori they don't have a lot in stock. Plus we want the 15k spindle, 60 tools, extended z height, all the optional stuff. I know you have alot of experience with mori. Have you ever had one with the extension casting on the z column? I thought this would be a good idea because by the time you put a sub plate on and add vices you are loosing about 8 inches of travel anyway. I will check out cool-jet, the one thing that attracted me to chip blaster is the variable coolant pressure that is regulated automatically. What is you opinion on spindle probe manufactures?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Renishaw... they are the DeFacto Standard... for a reason. Good canned probing cycles, easily obtained parts.

 

I've used an Optodyne RF Probe before... Good Stuff. I've not used Blum yet. Marposs is also VERY good.

 

I used an SV-500B50 with an Extended Z before. No problems. Nice options on the Mori... I'm envious.

[rich]

What about big plus spindles? I have used some simultaneous fit tools before but I'm real intrigued about all tools being simultaneous fit. you know how chips get everywhere how can you possibly keep chips from getting smashed between the tool holder and the spindle face?? I realize there is an air blast system in place but you know how stuff gets stuck to the tools even in the magazine. This seems like some meticulous cleaning nightmare. I like the rigidity part though. We have found that when we run drills 3.0 or 3.5 diameter holes through 16 inches of 4140 that our current Hilco 1000 psi 8 gpm pump is really inadequate its like a little geyser at the top of the part another reason for more gpm. what experience do you have with drilling larger diameter holes with the cool-jet? What is the gpm of the pump you used? was the gpm adequate? I'm thinking 20 gpm is minimum for this application.

[robk]

Rich,

If you don't mind please send me your e-mail address and I will send you MP10-Inspection Plus programming manual for Renishaw... I have more experience with Meldas written macros for probing cycles, but Renishaw is definitely easier and much more simple... One drawback to using a laser is the amount of space you lose on your table if you will check tool dia's with it(which you should take full advantage of every option they have to offer). You have to compensate for the biggest dia. tool you will use, and that's how much room you will lose on either side of the laser. We also used to use larg dia. drills in the past, but have gotten away from it now. The new "feed mills" work much better with the helical interpolation option...Also air blast is very important. Make sure you will have adequate air pressure to the machine. Go with the max dia. airline allowed. The chip load on new cutters is amazing, and no matter how much air you have it probably won't be enough. No problems on horizontals, but on the vertical we actualy ran a completely separate and independent of the machine air line to get the chips out of deep pockets.

Extended Z is nice...Will you use a pallet changer with the machine also?

[rich]

Rob,

I sent you my email address. I also changed my profile. I did not realize my email was not visible to forum members. The loss of travel is a consideration. I guess I'm not sure how these work and have not been able to envision this. Does the tool pass through a goal post apparatus that is fixed on the table? I’m going to do some serious investigation.

thanks again

[robk]

Rich, you should have received the info I sent you by now...

quote:

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I guess I'm not sure how these work and have not been able to envision this. Does the tool pass through a goal post apparatus that is fixed on the table? I’m going to do some serious investigation.

thanks again

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Go here Link and check out some videos towards the bottom of the page.

[rich]

Thanks Rob,

I did get the email, I’m working four fires this morning and i'm a little slow. I'll check your link out. You guys just respond so quickly.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Go with Big Plus and Nikken 3 Lock Holders. Pricey but worth every bit of the price.

[rich]

James, Do you have any Big Plus spindles? Can you interchange regular cat 50 holders from our existing machines in this spindle and use Big Plus where needed? or is it big plus only? What kind of Shrinker are you currently using?

[Psychomill]

rich,

 

This will probably answer some of your questions about Big Plus

 

Click on 'products' then 'Big Plus'.

 

Or just go here

[rich]

Thank you, Again.