New Machining Center?

[Lucky]

I'm about to buy a new machine. I've narrowed the field to:

 

Mikron VCP 1000 Duro w/ 20k 22hp Spindle

Mori Seiki NVD-5000 w/ 14k 30hp Spindle

Deckel-Maho DMC-104 Linear w/ 18k 35hp Spindle

OKK VP600 w/ 20k 30hp Spindle

 

I'd appreciate any comparison comments from users. Also any comparisons of HSK63A vs. CAT40 w/ Flange Contact (Big Plus) would be helpful.

 

I'll be cutting aluminum, soft and hardened steel, and the occaisonal exotic material. No graphite cutting. We use a Mikron w/ 42k spindle for all our electrodes.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'd stay away from HSK personally. I don;t like the shallow taper. I'd go with the Big Plus over the CAT. I've been playing with some Nikken 3-Lock holders and they are VERY nice. Pricey but precise.

 

The only machine I'd stay away from in that group is Dekel. I'm a Fanuc man and I avoid PC controls at ALL cost. I'd favor the higher RPM's though.

 

JM2C

[MCam Newbie]

I am partial to Mori Seiki, having used their lathes over the last 25 years. Extremely accurate and durable equipment, very dependable. We now have a Mori Seiki MV5000A/40 about 1.5 years old. It is a truly excellent machine, well laid out, lightning fast positioning and tool change, and unsurpassed accuracy in it's class. Glass scales are an option for even more precision. Thermal compensation and chilled air mist bearing oiling with ceramic preloaded spindle bearings provide high stiffness throughout the speed range. Very low maintanence, no way lube contamination of coolant supply. I would venture to say you cannot go wrong with a Mori Seiki machining center/Big Plus spindle/ and Fanuc controller. Definitely a solid, reliable, profitable investment in capitol equipment for any shop, IMNSHO.

The Fanuc 18i control is easy to become familiar with, and can get very large programs from a plug in adapter and a memory card, if you require it. We added 256Mb for about $80., including the 256 Mb memory, the read-write USB device for the PC, and the adapter that plugs the memory into the CNC panel beside the CRT.

 

I am with James on the Big Plus spindle, and also use the Nikken 3 Lock holders and they are sweet, highly rigid with the flange contact, finish milling with their "Dream Cut" high taper contact design, also 3 lock. Never saw an endmill run so true 4" out. I have however, experienced endmill pullout with carbide endmills during roughing, and sometimes with agressive finishing cuts. I believe the shanks are too smooth to get a proper grip on a cylindrical shank with the holders. For drilling, small endmills etc., accuracy is excellent, runout being a couple "tenths" with all their high speed balanced holders and Sk series collets.

With 12,000 RPM, high pressure thru tool coolant, and Nikken CAT40 holders, we drill small holes, under .100, 15+ diameters deep in 300 series and 15-5 stainless, drill .028 diameter holes in Inconel x750 with predictable tool life. The rigid tapping I have used to within 1/2 lead of hole bottom using 0-80 form taps. I only wish we had opted for more than the standard 30 tool magazine.

[Guest]

Mori-Seiki all the way.

We have 1 year old NV-50000, 1 2mo old NV-5000 CAT 40 taper, 14,000 rpm spindles. 1 CAT 50. NV-50000 due in 2 wks. These are very nice machines.

[Micromoldmaker]

We have a Mori-Seiki NVD 5000 with a 20,000 RPM spindle. Very accurate machine. Very smooth surfaces when using AI Nano High precision contour control. This one came with BT40 taper which is annoying since we're looking at a machine that has a CAT 40 taper and interchanging holders is out. My only real beef with the machine is that it's almost impossible to access the feet for leveling because the coolant tank is on the way and sits solid on the floor.

[Micromoldmaker]

Ooops...posted the above by accident.

I also was saying that we're looking at a Mazak Nexus VCN-410B with a 12,000 spindle. It's very impressive and not nearly as pricey as the Mori.

[Alvaro Gil - Cimquest-inc.com]

IMNSHO Mori Seiki makes the best machines on earth. Superior quality, and frightningly fast.

 

The new Fanuc controlers are awesome too, as said before with a compact flash card and a pcmcia adapter you can run large programs right from the machine without getting into propriatary PC controllers with failure prone hard disks/components.

[35K chipper]

Lucky,

Any spindle running over 15k needs HSK....

Hsk63a is a very robust holder it can handle the rpm and the horse power!!! let see a 40 taper with flange contact ??? must be a 40 taper trying to act like an hsk.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Any spindle running over 15k needs HSK....

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In YOUR opinion. How did you come up with that number?

 

Face Contact BT/CT is much better rigidity-wise without the headaches HSK can bring.

 

Here's what 3-Lock is.

 

Nikken 3-Lock Holders

[35K chipper]

Pull studs because of there design start to loose gripping force as the rpm increases. centrifugal force causes the fingers to pull away from the stud. hsk gripping increases as the rpm goes up. i guess thats why my machine has active rpm comp for spindle shrink and thermal comp for growth.

( @35k +.0011 ) there are several papers on why hsk. the only problem with hsk is cost. a tool holder with an active balance ring is 1800.00 unless you buy 10 at a time.

[rsbeadle]

We have two Mazak VCN 510-c's. They are excelent machines. We opted for the 510 because of the extra travel (20,40,20). Have had one for 2 years with only a small problem with a cooling fan on a drive. We are looking at the Dekel 5 axis machine mabey later this year. We wanted the Mazak Angulax, but we are told this a Europe only machine.