LongTime GIBBS user Virtual

[Seekinfo]

Hi i am a long time user of gibbs cam and i am going to moving to a new job position which uses master cam how do they compare as far as programming i learned gibbs basically hands on no reading really i had some questions periodically for some minor things that arose.

 

I am wanting any information on programming 4 axis milling i am very computer literate and very knowledgeable in learning new things but never even used master cam so please help.

 

[Allan Brown]

You should perhaps check into the various learning resources available for Mastercam, or ask your new employer to send your for training through your local Mastercam reseller. If you learn by using the software rather than by reading as you've indicated, you need to get your hands on a Demo copy from your local reseller, or wait until the job starts, then come back with more specific questions.

 

In fact, I'm sure everyone would be interested in having you answer your own question regarding how Mastercam stacks up to Gibbs - perhaps after a few weeks of hands-on use.

 

[ 03-20-2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Dave Thomson ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

One thing that I can tell you right off the bat that is different, is that the menu structure for Mastercam's functions are logical (except for Solids - SOLIDS SHOULD BE IN THE CREATE MENU) WHere you go is based on what you need to accomplish. So if you want to begin drawing, you simply go to the Create menu (from the main screen) and you select what you want to draw and sometimes how you want to draw it. FOr example, Create, Line Vertical creates a line that is vertical (In the Y direction if you're in the Construction plane) and you can either give it the exact positions of the endpoints by typing them in or you can just sketch it and give the position in X at a prompt. It's really very simple. It will take some adjustment though since Gibbs they are quite different in their approach. One thing you'll find is that Mastercam allows you way more control over tool motion that almost any other CAD/CAM system (Gibbs included), but you'll see after you spend some time with it. If you have questions, you can always come in here and ask questions too but your best bet is as Dave said, get your new employer to spring for classes/training from their reseller and that shoudl help you get started.

 

JM2C

[dave wells]

Ask your local Mastercam vendor for a copy of the Demo CD. It is a training copy of Mastercam. The demo will not post out machining code and you cannot save files, but it is very useful for learning the menu system contained in the application.

You can run it on any computer and it will give you a hands-on approach for learning how to draw geometry and use the graphics functions of Mastercam.

[Scott Bond]

Hi

If any forum members have made this change from Gibbs t0 Mastercam in the last year ? That person may know the Gibbs nickname for the same fuction in Mastercam,this would give INFOSEEK a leg up.

[Rekd™]

I started on Gibbs CAD/CAM many moons ago, way before Virtual Gibbs or GibbsNC.

 

Virtual Gibbs was, IMO,a step BACKWARDS as far as functionality and control of toolpaths.

 

Virtual Gibbs is super easy to use and learn, but with that ease comes a lack of many things. Control being the first and most important.

 

I learned Mastercam very very quickly and was almost instantly gratified by it's superiority and functionality and configurability and power and flexibility and and and and. (get the picture?)

 

In a nutshell, I believe (FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE) that Mastercam is by far the superior product. But I have a couple of things that Gibbs does very well that I think Mastercam could learn from..

First and most importantly, Virtual Gibbs comes with what they call a Geometry Expert. It's basically a database of the geometry you have loaded in it. It works a few ways; As a geometry creation tool it's VERY easy to creat trimmed chains of almost any shape.

It works as a geometry verification tool as well. If you have a chain loaded into it, (double clicking on part of a chain loads the whole chain), you can see all values and change all values as you desire. Although a bit difficult to learn, once you've mastered it, (no pun intended), you'll be able to create chains from simple to complex from scratch MUCH faster than you can in Mastercam.

 

The second most useful feature for me that Virtual Gibbs has and Mastercam doesn't is the ability to create, (on the fly) toolpaths with multiple tools on the same geometry AT THE SAME TIME. For example, create 3 tools, a spotter, a drill and a tap. Now create processes for all 3 tools and set speeds/feeds/depths etc for all 3 operations. Now select the points you want to drill with ALL 3 TOOLS and BAM, 3 process. Yes, I know there's a few ways of doing something close to this in mastercam, but it's just not the same.

 

-Rekd

 

Please note that this is just an opinion and an observation by someone who has a very good understanding of both products. I'm not trying to get everyone to switch from MC to VG or visa-versa, I'm just making an observation...

[Wallace]

Oppsss....

 

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The second most useful feature for me that Virtual Gibbs has and Mastercam doesn't is the ability to create, (on the fly) toolpaths with multiple tools on the same geometry AT THE SAME TIME. For example, create 3 tools, a spotter, a drill and a tap. Now create processes for all 3 tools and set speeds/feeds/depths etc for all 3 operations. Now select the points you want to drill with ALL 3 TOOLS and BAM, 3 process. Yes, I know there's a few ways of doing something close to this in mastercam, but it's just not the same.

--------------------------------------------------

 

In V9 Solid Drill, Mastercam create N process for X tools - Not create tools, create only one process for X tools, not select any geometry... AND BBBBAAAAMMMM... N process and X tools... not the same... Gibbs demand more work and time... Mastercam very easy, very fast, not the same...

 

[ 03-24-2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

[Rekd™]

Yes, the solid drill feature is a nice ADD-ON, which can be purchased for several thousand dollars, but not part of the standard package. It also has some bugs in it to be ironed out yet if I remember correctly. I haven't used it in a working environment, but the results were, to say the least, spectacular. Very nice feature.

While mastercam has made another step, we're still a long way from fully automatic programming.

 

There is another feature in Mastercam called autodrill. It's hidden away deep in the Toolpath sub menu's. This is a nice feature also, but probably due to my lack of understanding, I have not had good results with it.

 

[ 03-24-2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[cadcam]

quote:

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we're still a long way from fully automatic programming.

---

Now if this is what you are looking for you’re inn the wrong place.

 

I don't believe in such a thing.

Some features like simple drilling like you were stating before, like spot, drill & tap.

 

But the rest needs to come from knowing what you are doing.

Not from the software just doing what it might think is right.

The shape changes every day and the way you cut it changes with it.

There is no way to capture every way there is to machine all shapes.

 

JM2C

[Rekd™]

I'm not looking for fully automatic programming. I'm not sure where you got that impression, but oh well. I simply made a reference to the direction that Mastercam is heading.

 

5 years ago I would have laughed at the thought of solid drilling. 5 years from now I'll be laughing if we're not "solid milling" as well.

 

You can teach computers the best way to approach most jobs. And by specifying stock, tooling, machine capabilities and other parameters, you WILL be able to automate 90% of the programming process as we know it today. Just like with solid drilling.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Yes, the solid drill feature is a nice ADD-ON, which can be purchased for several thousand dollars, but not part of the standard package.

---

Sorry, but this is flat wrong. All that is required for this is Version 9 and Solids. Not even near several thousand dollars(at least here in the US).

 

Solid Drill is the $#!+ Ind it is Easy..... BAM!!!!!!

 

JM2C

[cadcam]

quote:

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I'm not sure where you got that impression, but oh well.

---

Hi Reked I had gotten this from your earlier statement that I quoted in my first post.

This was not an attack but, this is how I do feel.

 

As for 90% I still don’t agree. Sorry.

But I know a lot of things will change, I do believe in the future will bring amazing things.

[Rekd™]

As I said, the solid drill function IS NOT a standerd option.. As for the price, I was under the impression that the solids package was around $5,000.00.

[cadcam]

Hi Rekd ,The solids packge is under half that by a good amount.

 

But I would love to sell you it for that if you would like. JK

 

[ 03-24-2002, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

To me having Solids is standard because I would not even consider buying Mastercam without it. It's such a time saver for the modeling that it pays for itself in the first part you model.

 

Note: Where I work, I HAVE to model EVERYTHING to check engineering's work otherwise things may not show up until I've already half made the part which would NOT be a good thing. That's why it's MANDATORY that we have solids.

[Trevor Bailey]

An option I would like to see implemented in MC would be to have the ability to create rough-finish cycles in one operation. Although you can do this now, we need to take it one step further and be able to pick a different tool for the finish and be able to change the feed rate without having to create a seperate operation with a different tool and feed rate. The toolpath editor is great for manipulating toolpath's, but it would be much easier the way Rekd described in his first posting.

[Charles Davis]

Trevor & Rekd,

 

I'm using the operations manager more to copy operations, and drag and drop parameters, geometry and tools between operations.

 

So if you want to rough and finish a pocket, first rough it. Then copy the op, go into the rough/finish parameters screen and turn "rough" off (so just the floor and walls are machined).

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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I'm using the operations manager more to copy operations, and drag and drop parameters, geometry and tools between operations.

---

This is what I do also.

Then I change the rough tool to a finish tool.

I change the rough notes to finish notes. Reamove asny stock to leave ,and remove any extra Z steps.

It leaves easy parts, stay easy.

[Trevor Bailey]

I alos do the above mentioned, but look at how many "clicks" it takes. Just seems to me that it should be easier since most of us out there use the mehtod Charles suggested anyway. Cut down on all the clicking!!!!!!!

[Charles Davis]

You have a point.

[Rekd™]

This is what I was talking about originally, when I referred to Gibbs allowing you to create a process that will do the entire feature by simply dragging a tool from one pallet to another; it keeps the settings you have, so you just change what you need with the new tool and you're done. This includes holes.. when you don't have the solid drill option.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. Mastercam is by far better in my somewhat misguided opinion, and I know both pretty well. Just some things they might think about in coming versions.

 

-Rekd

 

TREVOR!!!!!!

[Trevor Bailey]

MATT!!!!!!!

[cadcam]

Trevor!!!!!!

Hey was your ears burning last week. we were talking about you at the Westec.

All good sir.

[Trevor Bailey]

Jay,

 

For some reason or another, my ears are always burning!?!?!?! I wanted to be a part of the lunch crowd, but there just is not enough time in the day as it sems of late.

[Toby]

I was forced by a job change to use old Gibbs and then virtual Gibbs after knowing and using Mastercam. All I can say is Gibbs offers some nice features buuuuuttttt Mastercam is hands down the bomb and I was elated when we deep sixed that package for Mastercam.