General 5 axis question

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

I am new to 5-axis programming and was recently hired by a new company. We have a fadal 4020 with a five axis rotary mounted on the right side of the table. The A-axis rotates about X and the B-axis rotates about Y. We have an older customized 5-axis post. In order to get the correct output from our post, we set B0 in the position where it is straight up and down so the A-axis would be rotating about the Z-axis. Is this the normal zero position for the B-axis or is there something strange going on with our post. Also when I try to use a generic 5-axis mill post I get B and C output for all of my rotary moves when I need A and B moves. So my questions in general are is our post and machine set up correctly and if not what would I have to change in order to get the generic 5-axis mill post to post A and B moves.

 

Sorry this is so long,

 

 

Justin

[crazy^millman]

code:

---

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------

fmt A 20 p_out #Primary output axis position

fmt B 20 s_out #Secondary output axis position

fmt C 20 d_out #Dummy output axis

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------

# 5 Axis Rotary Settings

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------

#Assign axis address

str_pri_axis "C"

str_sec_axis "B"

str_dum_axis "A"

 

#Toolplane mapped to top angle position strings

str_n_a_axis "A"

str_n_b_axis "B"

str_n_c_axis "C"

---

Change the letter here to make the axis output to what you need.

 

I would say contact your dealer and they might be able to help you pretty easily. With that said I assume you are using the TOP wcs when doing all of your 5 axis moves. If the standard set-up work for with the generic post only the letter then what I show above will be great but think it will not so need to look in a couple places to change things.

 

Will need to set these up correctly as well.

 

code:

---

#Rotary axis travel limits, always in terms of normal angle output

#Set the absolute angles for axis travel on primary

pri_limlo$ : -9999

pri_limhi$ : 9999

#Set intermediate angle, in limits, for post to reposition machine

pri_intlo$ : -9999

pri_inthi$ : 9999

 

#Set the absolute angles for axis travel on secondary

sec_limlo$ : -9999

sec_limhi$ : 9999

#Set intermediate angle, in limits, for post to reposition machine

sec_intlo$ : -9999

sec_inthi$ : 9999

---

These will allow to change axis outputs if needed.

 

code:

---

#Machine base matrix (Base matrix to map positions into)

matb1$ : 1

matb2$ : 0

matb3$ : 0

matb4$ : 0

matb5$ : 1

matb6$ : 0

matb7$ : 0

matb8$ : 0

matb9$ : 1

---

These work with 1 or -1 to change them. The 3 you see as 1 as the standards ones and just chaing them to -1 will most times solve most machine axis combinations problems.

 

You run into anything else post up and we will try to help you out.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Thanks Ron,

 

I'll try to make those changes and see if it gives me the code I need. From the way I described our machine setup does it seem like the B-axis is oriented correctly. Should B0 be to the left or straight up and down.

 

Thanks again,

 

Justin

[crazy^millman]

Well been a while since I seen the set-up but if B is bottom rotation axis I believe our was set-up from top and did everything over with no problem.

 

HTH

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Ron,

Thanks again for your reply. I'm still a little confused

 

I was reading in the Fadal manual and to me it looks like B0 should be set at the cold start position. At this position the tilt head would be to the left so the A-axis would be rotating about the X-axis. Our post only gives us the correct B output if we have B0 set at -90 degrees from the cold start position. I may as well mention this is a custom 5-axis V9 post and if possible I would like to be able to set it up so it would give us the correct B output when B0 was set at the coldstart position. I hope this makes sense. Like I said I am very new to 5-axis programming, and this post was customized long before I was hired here. Is it possible to change the post to give the correct output when B0 is set at the coldstart position,I would prefer to use the custom post we have now instead of trying to start from scratch with the generic 5-axis mill post. Maybe someone could let me know if I'm way off the mark here and should just leave everything as is. After all the post does give the correct code it just seems like we have to set up the machine incorrectly to get it to work. Finally we also have X2 does the update post C-hook work with a 5-axis post.

[crazy^millman]

code:

---

#Secondary shift (determines position and angle calculation)

#plane correction 90 degree shift case (plus or minus)

#used when secondary plane is defined perp to primary zero

#EX. P - vecx, vecy S - vecz, vecy

shift_90_s : 1 #Shift pos.=1, neg.=-1

---

Look here and see if that does the what you are looking for.

 

HTH

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Ron,

 

Thanks I will look at that tommorrow when I get to work. I appreciate all your help.

 

Justin

[Jim at Gentex]

Justin,

 

We have the exact same machine with the trunion type rotary table setup. (Actually it's referred to as a 4.5 axis because of the b axis travel limitation ) I was in the same position years ago when I had to take over that machine and the old post was not quite up to snuff.

 

Ours is set up the same way. The a axis rotating about z is correct when all axes are in the home position. The 'stow' or 'cold start' position is what is confusing you. When you cold start it and then send all axes to home, the correct position is for the rotary table to be parallel to the machine table. This way you get the maximum amount of travel from your b axis in both the + and - directions. If you configure it with a rotating about x you lose some of your range of motion in b. That's why they don't normally do it that way.

 

Chances are that your old post is probably OK once you get used to the axis orientations. Yes, you will need to run the updatePost C-hook in order for the post to work correctly, so try that first.

 

If you are going to edit either your old post or a generic 5 axis post, make sure your axis limits are set correctly or the b axis will sometimes try to 'wrap around' and it will crash into the table!

(Been there, done that, scared the **** out of me! )

 

If you still can't get it to work and you get completely stuck, we ended up buying an 'off the shelf' Fadal 5 axis post from In-House which was configured specifically for this machine and it works like a champ. Contact your reseller if you need this post and I'm sure they'll turn it around very quickly for you at a reasonable price.

 

If I can be of further assistance let me know because I ran that same animal for a number of years.

[mcpgmr]

Hey Justin! didn't I tell you that one would be a mother. Your sister company has the same machine and configuration and they have a post for it. Probably a few rules to apply first as far as WCS in your model to get the correct code using that post. I only set that machine up and changed tools for the girl running it and never had to oportunity to program it. Talk to Ches. He will point you in the right direction. If there are too many rubber bands, bandaids and bubble gum then plead your case to the big Cheese. While I was at the sister company I started to implement Autin NC's G-Post and Cimpro post development software for in house post development. I could build a funtional post for that beast in and hour or two with that software. Problem was I was programming, setting up and running a cell of 4 Axis Makino's and didn't stay long enough to prove how good it was and convince Mr. Backward WCS that it was the way to go. Good luck!

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Jim,

 

Thanks that helps explain things. The Post actually works OK. Although there are a few minor changes I eventually want to make. We have been making parts with it. Since I am so new to 5-axis or 4.5-axis I felt it necessary to bring this subject up because I don't want to learn the wrong way from the begininning. Plus as you Mention Paul I may eventually have to plead my case to "The Big Cheese" and ask him to buy one from In House Solutions, and I have to know exactly what I am talking about before I do that. You know the guys I work for they spare no exspense if something will pay off in the long run. For now I am going to stick with whats actually working and leave things as is.I may have some questions on some minor tweeks to the Post that would eliminate any editing I am currently having to do. Most of it seems pretty straight forward to change. When I get a chance I will post some of the code and ask you experts what you think. Thanks again everyone one for your help. Paul as always I will be in touch with you. Hope you are doing well.

 

Justin

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

IMG]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/cncjb2006/Untitled.jpg[/img]

 

 

Just seeing if this image uploads

[crazy^millman]

 

See it that is it.

 

That was the same one we had an one place I worked.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Ron,

 

Why didn't that image show up in my post. I uploaded it to photobucket then copied and pasted what I thought was the IMG tag. I didn't get an image just the link I copied. Anyway thats a picture of what I've been talking about. I think the model is TR65. The position shown in the picture is B90. Over the past week I have become more familar with the post and it seems to be working fine. Thanks again for all your help.

 

 

Justin

[crazy^millman]

You somehow missed the [ at the start of your image pretty easy to do.

 

Glad to see you have got a better understanding of the post and going in a good direction and glad to be of assistance.