O/T - Cryogenic Hardening

[McRae]

Hope some one else has already beaten this dead horse. Who amoung us has been asked to validate this type of a "Heat Treatemnt Process"?

 

Any information appreciated.

[chris m]

Andrew,

 

I have seen this in 3 applications:

 

1) High speed die steels [M2, M4] often go through a deep-freeze cycle before tempering or even a double-freeze, double-temper cycle. This has been purported to extend edge life and stability although the jury was still out on that when I was looking into it [1998]. I never actually spec'd this process as I did not feel that the significant cost increase had demonstrable benefits at the time.

 

2) M42 HSS gear shaping cutters that are processed this way seem to exhibit "a little better" edge life than those not frozen. I apologize for the quality of data; but I couldn't get any quantified results.

 

3) We are currently looking into eliminating this process from some of our parts because of excessive cost-to-benefit. Testing is still underway, but so far it looks like the stability that we were originally freezing for is still there without it.

 

C

 

[ 09-16-2002, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[McRae]

Chris,

 

Your data is right on with other information I have uncovered so far. My feeling is that Cryo-applications are the modern day equivalent to alchemy and I don't know what benefits that the enquiry to my office hopes to achieve. I can understand that the effect of temperature is not limited to the addition of heat and that the removal of heat will have effect on the grainstructure and solubility of the carbides etc. in the base material.

 

Walt Disney may have the right answer...

[Tony]

The next step up from Cryogenic's

Could be heat treating/processing in space

The only true Zero atmosphere.

I'll start printing up brochures...

[kyle]

We use this alot for small thin blades in the mold industrym keeps material from warping during wire edm.

[chris m]

Andrew

 

How did you make out on this?

 

C

[McRae]

This query is for a research portion for a robust design project. The intentions are design for manufacturablity and also to design something to capture the market and leave competitors lagging by 5-10 years.

 

The Hardening is misleasding, the cryo operation is more of a super quench that will modify the grain structure only and not add any hardness to the component.

 

The company has invested in all sorts of buzz word technology and I thank all those who contribute to our success...

[chris m]

quote:

---

...will modify the grain structure only and not add any hardness to the component...

---

Correct-a-mundo

 

Our testing is still underway on the elimination of this process on some of our forgings; the heat treat costs more than the forging in some cases because of the heat treat spec!

 

Unfortunately, the early results seem to indicate that the cryo treatment may actually have an effect on part stability

 

I'll keep you posted

 

C

 

[ 09-24-2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[roy g. biv]

One of the engineers here where I work found a study where cryogenic treatment of steel reduced sliding wear by up to 800% on stainless steel.

 

I still have not seen this "study", but these "results" have caused considerable waves around here.

 

On the plus side machinability was said to be increased by 150% due to the more organized grain structure.

 

Are these benefits worth the cost? Who knows, the jury is still out here. But I may find out as soon as I can get my little mitts on some material.

[Oppiz]

Has anyone tried cryogenics on deep draw tooling? If so What were the results?

[chris m]

As far as I know [though contrary to the post about stainless wear resistance] the main claim to fame is stability and uniformity of structure, not hardness, abrasion resistance, etc.

 

I don't know that this would be a real benefit for draw tools. The main issue with this type of tooling is always abrasive wear; my [slight] research about this does not indicate that cryo treatments address this. It also doesn't help heat-treat distortion because the cryo treatment occurs AFTER the hardening portion of the heat treat cycle, so any heat treat distortion has already occurred before the cryo process. I know that Dayton Progress and others were playing with this a little in punch press tooling, but I don't know that deep-draw tools [which are, of course, very different animals] would reap significant benefits.

 

Hopefully Mr. Biv will keep us posted