Workholding Solutions for decreasing setup times

[Pitka_Guru]

Hi Guys, 

 

Our company is looking for ways to reduce our setup times and become more efficient with our Vertical Mills. 2 VF-4ss and 1 Mazak VTC200B. Currently we use vises (crappy chinese ones..ugh) for about 85% of our parts. Except for some sheet machining that we made a fixture for a few years back.  99% of our parts are aluminum and here are some of the typical components we do throughout the day.

 

Aluminum sheets from 1.5 to 3mm thick that are punched and then we face them flat so we are looking at vacuum holding for this application.

3D form tooling  that we clamp in a few vises. These are between 20" and 40"  long and get machined on 4 sides.

We press 2mm sheets on the above tools, fasten them to the tool and they go back on the CNC for a slotting operation with a 1.5mm endmill.

Various billet blocks which are usually not larger than 3x6x10", with multiple setups and anywhere between 1 and 10 pieces.

 

Something new we are doing is thin wall billet (pic attached) which is roughly 12 x 12 x 4". In our first attempt at these we did 1 part at a time and had to make a fixture to hold it to cut the inside. Next time we'd like to be able to set up 4-6 at a time to run unattended.

 

 

Now that I've given a run down of what we do any and all suggestions and recommendations are appreciated.

 

What do you guys think of workholding sytems like Schunk VeroS and Jergens systems for locating fixtures quickly and easily? What about Witte Vacuum pumps and plates? Is the part attached above something we could clamp with Vacuum?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Pitka  

 

 

 

 

  

[The Cathedral]

We use the Jergens Ball Lock system on all of our vertical machines. We have all of our vises, Haas indexers, etc. on plates and it literally takes about one minute to switch vises out. They go in square every time, and we took the time when putting the base plates on the machines to make sure they are in the same position. Meaning we can take a vise out of one machine and put it in another with the same workoffset locations and it will be in position. They are worth every penny, but they are not cheap.

 

We used to keep the Haas indexers in the same machine because it was such a pain to indicate them, even to the point where the machine would sit idle because we had to no use for the indexer but we didn't want to take it out. Now we pull them out and slap them in and they are always square. It definitely freed up machine space.

 

I wish I could help you with vacuum fixtures--I'm still trying to get the boss to shell out the money so we can have one ourselves.

[Pitka_Guru]

Thanks Cathedral. Did you order everything from Jergens or did you machine anything on your own? And what about the vises? Are you using the Jergens or whatever vises you had? What work envelope are your machines and I know from the online price of one zero point system they aren't cheap. PM me if you are willing to offer what kind of numbers I'm looking at in terms of cost for one machine. 

 

How long did it take you to get one machine up and running with the full suite of Jergens ball locks? A few days, a week?? 

 

Thanks!

[The Cathedral]

Thanks Cathedral. Did you order everything from Jergens or did you machine anything on your own? And what about the vises? Are you using the Jergens or whatever vises you had? What work envelope are your machines and I know from the online price of one zero point system they aren't cheap. PM me if you are willing to offer what kind of numbers I'm looking at in terms of cost for one machine. 

 

How long did it take you to get one machine up and running with the full suite of Jergens ball locks? A few days, a week?? 

 

Thanks!

 

We ordered everything from Jergens as far as the machine base plate and the vise base plates. For the Haas and numerous other fixture, I made them myself using either 3/4" or 1" thick aluminum and parts ordered from Jergens. The vises we use are our Kurt vises that we had before, although we did order two Jergens vises and they're pretty nice, especially being able to switch out between carvable jaws and hard jaws.

 

Our machines are 40" x 20" but the ball-lock system actually helps us make it bigger: I've had to machine tubes that are roughly 60" long, so I make up long base plates and bore the locating holes for two positions. So I'll start the cycle with the plate pushed over to the right, and halfway through I'll push it over to the left and machine the rest of the part. I use a simple air bearing method to lift the (insanely heavy) fixture plate. The ball-lock system locates so repeatable that you can slide it left or right and not worry about it at all.

 

Getting a machine up and running takes only a few hours. The part that takes the longest is making sure the machine base plate is as square as physically possible. After than you just bolt it to the table. It takes maybe 20 minutes to mount a vise to a fixture plate by drilling and tapping; then you just put in on the table, indicate it square, and bolt it down. You just have to take your time and make sure your vises mount square to each other so if you need multiple vises in a row, they will be perfectly in line. We go from single to multiple-vise set ups and never have to indicate it in anymore.

 

I believe it was something like a 3-5 week lead time for the machine base plate, as they make it custom to your machine layout. Other than that everything else is stock and we can get in a day or two.

 

I'll PM you the price point once I dig up the paperwork.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Pics?

[Pitka_Guru]

Very Nice!

 

So, the machine base plate never comes off the table and is fitted with locators and tapped holes?

 

The Jergens vises you purchased are they the ones with the aluminum extruded bases? Do you find them heavy? Our shop doesn't have a crane and I'm curious if the vises mounted to a fixture plate will be light enough for someone to lift in and out of the machine unassisted? I also like the ability of the Jergens vises to quickly switch between hard and soft jaws. 

 

Is there anything you wished you had done now that you have the system or things you'd like to add now that you've been using it for a while? 

 

Thanks for taking all my questions and as Matt asked, pics would be sweet.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

[The Cathedral]

Here are some pictures. I apologize for the not-so-clear images and the ones that have writing on them--we use pictures on our setup sheets to help make things easier. Click on them to make them bigger.

 

This one demonstrates the sliding fixture. The three vises are mounted to a piece of aluminum 1" thick. Note the ball-lock pins with a thumb-knob on them. You can torque these things down by hand and they will hold tight. Note also the empty locating hole in between the pins. There are four of them. When you want to slide the fixture (weighs roughly 500 lbs) you take out the ball-lock pins, turn on the air, slide it, and put them back in.

 

Each fixture uses only two pins to actually locate, the rest are needed to hold the fixture flat and square. Here is another sliding fixture, with an air-powered steady rest I made up. You can see the extra holes more obviously here.

 

 

The machine base plate never comes off the machine. It is equipped with many bushings that are used to locate. They are a very tight tolerance. So the machine plate, and the fixture plate have very tight locating bushings, and the ball-lock pin locates and clamps.

 

 

The vise fixture plates are only a few pounds. They don't add much. But our Kurt Double 6" vises weigh 100lbs each. I have no problem lifting them by hand, but the older guys need a fixture jack. The Jergens vises are about half that weight. They are really easy to move around. Other fixtures get very heavy.

 

Here is a rotary Haas fixture I made up. Note the fixture plate, but also how I made the rotating table with Ball-lock pins. This way we can switch off between 4", 6", or any other fixture with ease. These are the same plates that mount on the machine plate.

 

 

And yes, they hold serious weight and are rigid during very heavy milling:

 

 

Of course, the biggest advantage (along with ease of set up) is repeatability. The old fixture I had for the parts pictured below had to have each position indicated in every time the fixture was set up. Now, we just slap the plate in, and upload the offsets we saved from the previous run. It's that simple.

 

 

The biggest problem is when you have to make fixtures that are too big to be held in a vise. Since there are no drilled and tapped holes on the machine base plate, it can take some creative thinking to figure out how to hold things. The easiest thing to do is get a 20" x 20" plate and drill and tap holes in a grid. Then you can screw regular fixturing into it.

 

 

[Craig-B]

Kurt DJ6 DoveLock Quick Change Jaw System is designed for fast set-up if you use vise for most stuff.

[Pitka_Guru]

Those pics are great, not blurry at all. Thanks for your insight. Very clever steady rest and I like the rotary table fixture you made. Lots of good ideas for us to use in our shop.  Cheers!