X+ is so fast and easily customisable...

With a bit of office macros, it can do anything you want. Colors based on offset number? Done. Tools listed by diameter? Tool number? Extension length? Done.

And if you don't know VBA, you can record the macros, then paste into your template file.

exactly, I like the layout from x+ in the html format. I would just like to be able to edit the field boxes. the excel output don't work very well. With over 100 cnc's and only 6 programmers, we put the responsibility of maintaining tool sheets to the shop floor

Wes, I think you would be amazed at what the excel output can do. AND... All fields can be changed/updated rather simply on the floor by those that can click a cell and edit the info.

Guitar, how do you feel now?

Played.

We've got 12 axis Star Ecas swiss machines that will do that while pinch milling. They call it super positioning. Wayyy smaller machines though.

I worked for Joe when he first started importing them with Magna baqck in the early 90's.

Josh, you may want to Pick Larry Greenawalt's brain. One of the best turning guys I've ever known.

Tell him and Joe I said Hi!

I tried searching and couldn't find it. I found your posts when you were just starting to investigate Cribmaster, but nothing beyond that.

 

How much work did you have to do yourself to make it work the way you wanted?

Lots. You need to do like any other database of substance. Create the data tree, gather the data, and input the data. Custom fields, queries, handshaking, etc. about 2 years to implement.

The reason for the H1 D17 is simply consistency. When I got here, our existing A61's (pro 3) were set up for H1 D17. Not sure why, but I had Makino set up our new F5's (pro 5) the same way for consistency. The D17 (or D whatever) just subs out to the Makino Tool Data from the Fanuc side.

No other reason. You could make it anything you want to fit your needs. Many machines use D99 for their calls to the tool manager.

These are verticals with Tsudakoma 4th rotaries. I would not run them unlocked unless (obviously) for full 4th.

Some Horizontals automatically lock/unlock on B moves. Niigata is that way. you must explicitly unlock them for full 4th.

But I would definitely trust the builder (especially one of Makino caliber) over me any day.

Will you be using RFID tool ID tags of any type? Crib software such as TDM or Cribmaster?

If so, you will prolly want to start there, to easily integrate those into your scheme. You may already be using something that will translate to 8 digits fairly readily.

If not, try to make it expandable, as Ron says. You can include stuff like custom tools, shape, type, material, job, ITN, mfg., etc. Just make sure it works how YOU work.

 

Edit:

Maybe contact Toby wood at Makino for his ideas on what others with the controllers are using.

I'll PM you his email.

You really can't turn it off. In the post, if you set it to sgi = 0, then it makes it M251. I did that to make it revert to M251 if it wasn't set at all, as in a drill cycle.

I don't want it drilling if the previous setting was ultra accurate, and forget to set it back.

 

From above:

phsm1_on         #SGI 4 High speed functions before G43
      if mr1$ = 0, mr1$ = 2

Samples...

O2541 (102541)
(PGM P11111)
()
(OPERATION 70)
(FIXTURE - PROTOTYPE JAWS)
(MAKINO F5)
(RKB 11/30/15)




G00 G17 G20 G40 G80 G90
N10(A0 - RGH 11.1 DEG ANGLE)
G90
T1(1/4 R.015 6 FLT T-CARB EM)
M6
M11
G00 G17 G90
G54.1 P1 A0. X-1.4617 Y-3.1397 S4966 M03
M10
M251
G43 H1 Z2.125 M08
T2
G90 Z.225
G01 Z-.25 F30.
G41 D17 X-1.6089 Y-3.111 F35.7
X-1.6368 Y-3.2537

....

...

...

 

G00 Z2.125
(A0 - RGH .190 DIM FLAT AND 11.1 DEG ANGLE)
X-1.5223 Y-2.9174
M251
Z.225
G01 Z-.25 F30.
G41 D17 X-1.6723 F35.7
Y-2.9374
Y-3.2121
G02 X-1.6755 Y-3.2461 I-.1775 J0.
G01 X-1.7212 Y-3.48
X-1.7306 Y-3.5279
X-1.7421 Y-3.5868
G40 X-1.5949 Y-3.6155

....

....

....

 

 

N20(A-90 - RGH SMALL VEE POCKET)
G90
T2(.031 R.005 4 FLT RGH EM )
M6
M11
G00 G17 G90
G54.1 P2 A-90. X-1.8401 Y.0478 S18483 M03
M10
M251
G43 H1 Z4.47 M08
M26
T3
G90 Z3.57
G01 Z3.4236 F32.
X-1.8449 Y.0505 F26.
G03 X-1.8484 Y.0515 I-.00346 J-.00606
G01 X-1.8496

As Bob says with the filtering and Dataserver. Big programs should be run from there with M198Pxxxx due to storage.

Make a simpple main to call the big toolpath sub.

Points not arcs. SGI.4 loves points. The more the better.

M250 = High Accuracy

M251 = high performance - fastest, least accurate

M252 = Ultra High Accuracy - slowest, most accurate.

M253 = Special with Rotary

 

Here is how I set using Misc reals...

 I have the phsm postblocks to turn on and off that I call in various places like ptolchg, ptlchg0, pretract, etc.

 

phsm1_on         #SGI 4 High speed functions before G43
      if mr1$ = 0, mr1$ = 2

      if mr1$ = 1 & mr1_flg <> 1,
        [
        pbld, n$, "M250", e$

        mr1_flg = 1
        ]
      if mr1$ = 2 & mr1_flg <> 2,
        [
        pbld, n$, "M251", e$

        mr1_flg = 2
        ]
      if mr1$ = 3 & mr1_flg <> 3,
        [
        pbld, n$, "M252", e$

        mr1_flg = 3
        ]
      if mr1$ = 4 & mr1_flg <> 4,
        [
        pbld, n$, "M253", e$

        mr1_flg = 4
        ]

phsm_off    #No off function for SGI 4?    
      if mr1_flg = 1,
        [

        mr1_flg = 0
        ]
      if mr1_flg = 2,
        [

        mr1_flg = 0
        ]
      if mr1_flg = 3,
        [

        mr1_flg = 0
        ]
      if mr1_flg = 4,
        [

        mr1_flg = 0
        ]

Gimme a bit Df1. We have F5's and I've got it set up with Mi's for sgi. 4. Same machine, only biggerer. I'll post up some samples.

They are in your Excel file.

Look under View ---> Macros ---> View macros

One thing that hasn't been touched on (or I missed it), is that the Makino is simply faster. In feeds maintained, acc/dec, etc.

Even on our verticals, if we move work from a Mori or Matsuura to our F5, we instantly claim a 10-25% decrease in cycle time. All else equal. Guy running, cutters, tool path, etc. add more % for dynamic.

Now, add all of the other benefits Bob has mentioned, and you are losing money by not buying the better machine.

Easy least if you are using the excel one. Just create a formula in the macros.

Not so much in html.

Also, the proficiency of your inspection department comes into play. I have tied up 6 pallets waiting on inspection.

 

If you have some production, then yes I agree, it works well.

If that's the case, no machine choice would matter much then.

Production or not, a vertical must stop operation during a setup.

A Horizontal continues to run during 80+% of setup time if it is done correctly.

The big trend I have seen with salesmen is to push high quality multi pallet HMC's to replace multiple lower quality VMC's. There is a time and place for it.

 

But, If all you do is low quantity runs for .gov customers that require first article inspections. I will take 4 spindles to one everyday that ends in Y.

I would argue that. All we do are short runs. We can turn our Makino horizontals three times faster than any vertical. Plus, we can revert to a running job WHILE we wait on a first article, while the stand alone vert waits, not earning a cent.

ive been waiting all day for your input ron. Do you have any link to a setup like that? Thanks

It would be similar to this, with the spacers set to the fin spacing.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/slotting-saw-long-arbor-stainless-maybe-295587/

Thank you sir!

Please let me know what your maint. guy says, CAM.

We have SB16's SR20RII's and SR20J's with Fanuc, and ECAS 20T's with Siemens.

Funny this came up.

We have many Star Swiss machines with LNS barfeeders.

I have been tasked to improve our Swiss setup reduction and efficiencies. I found out this week that when the machines receive an end of bar signal, the star uses an M0 to fire the barfeeder.

Yes. An M0.

So if we are on the last part of the bar, regardless of where we are in the program, if we have an M0 (for chip removal, check, or manual part extraction) the barfeeder cycles, loading a new bar.

When I was an apps guy for Miyano, we used a dedicated M20 for the barfeeder.

I spoke to LNS and Star, and they both said use an M1.

Really? You remove an industry standard Mcode to fire a barfeed?

The reality is, you hook up a normally open relay to a Mcode. You fire the Mcode, closing the relay,which in turn sends a 24vdc signal to the barfeeder (or other aux device). The device sends back a confirmation signal to the machine to open the relay as a Release to continue operation. The ladder or relay logic dictates that the machine can only operate in an open relay condition.

To my dismay, I had to explain this to the Star guy when I requested use of something other than a M0. He said "we can probably do that for the Fanuc machines, but definately not the Siemens machines". We will be escalating this, as we have 13 Stars. They will not get off on ignorance and laziness.

Between myself and our maintenance guy, this is very doable. But if we have to pay for the optional Mcode, we will make them implement it. If nothing else, just because of principle.

Having had many years with both, I will say they are both world class machines. I was also a Makino apps engineer for 8 years. Dealer, not factory.

Now, that behind, I think you need to evaluate the goal.

Both are accurate machines. The Matsuura has more guts, the Makino will out run a rabbit.

The high speed processing and execution of the Makino is legendary. It cannot be beat for super adjustable machining. As long as you get super G. Fast and accurate, faster and accurate, and super fast and mostly accurate.

But for very accurate, super strong, less fast hogging, the Matsuura would be the choice

What if a man loves fishing but doesn't have time to get the boat out? OK if his buddy invites him to a fish fry?

Sure, but said man usually brings a side or some drinks.

Unless he's a mooch.

Any time, sir.

... I do. What are we trying to do? I like to code things.

I'd rather teach a man to fish...

One thing we found doing that, is when you do spool up the RPM while in the pilot bore, do it increments. We would go up in 1/3's to full rpm, with full coolant on the drill

We did that, because if we just went to full RPM inside the part, the drill would seize and break on occasion.