Andrew-- We want to use the rotary axis as part of the toolpath, not just rotate the tombstone on an angle and than machine. I wouldn't have any problems if we were just going to machine one part in the middle of the tombstone. It's trying to machine multiple parts that are off center. The parts we're going to machine aren't that large, and we were hoping to be able to put multiple parts on each face of the tombstone as clearance will allow. I didn't think this was anything that was that strange, however I haven't even been able to find anyone who uses a horizontal's 4th axis for contouring. Everyone I have spoke to uses it to machine a part at a certain angle. I will have Cherokee post a pic. of the part so you have a better idea. Thanks!!!

I recently placed an order for a horizontal milling machine optioned with a full 4th axis, not just 1 degree indexing. Some parts we will be manufacturing in the near future require 4th axis contouring, and we hope to be able to mount multiple parts on each face/side of the tombstones as clearance allows. Every person we have spoken to, including the staff that sold us the M/C software have no experience programming or machining this way. Everyone understands and uses rotary tables on verticle's, but not tombstones in the horizontal's. I was wondering how you go about programming multiple parts that are off center for 4th axis type contouring. I am having a difficult time figuring out how the machine or the software will be able to referance points that are off center. I know if I have one part in the middle of the table that's not a problem, but what about multiple parts off center?? Has anyone else ever ran 4th axis jobs in their horizontal's??? Thanks!!!

Just wait till I get knowledgable enough to start asking stupid questions(LOL) !!!

That sucks!!!! I have to admit, I love my two cat's, also!!! I will be real bummed when that day comes. Just curious, how old was he/she???

Bucket--I believe I'm going to try those CD's. Thanks!!!

James--Our dealer is Prism in Pennsylvania, and they are quite large. They have a staff of over twenty, including sales, teachers, tech., and administrative. Besides M/C, they sell Solidworks, and several DNC software. They are pretty large, however they do have people coming from out of state, so I suppose they can't spread the training out too long. When I asked them about extending it, the teacher stated he wanted a 5-Day class, however M/C said no because too many shops would complain about losing their help for so long. Oh well. Thanks!!!

Thanks for the kind words of support, Buckethead. Unfortunately, I have NO CAM experience. It was Cherokee who has been working with the S/C stuff before M/C. I do have machining experience, but no formal programming experience other than directly on the control.

I was talking about the 2D training stuff, not even the 3D. I can only imangine what it will be like when I go for the 3D training. I purchased two seats of Mill Level 3, Solid's, Lathe, and all the training for them, so I've just started the training. I took it about 10 days ago, so I realize I haven't given it much time. I plan on trying to put aside a minimum of 30-60 minutes a day to work on it, and hope I'll be ready for the 3D stuff with-in a few month's. On top of all this training, we have 1 week of "cell controller" training to attend out at Makino for a new linear pallet system. I will let you know how the next few month's go for me with this M/C training. Do you know of any other's who have posted about their experience's learning M/C without any other CAM training? Anyone else try those M/C training CD's that another member mentioned? I'd be interested in hearing about that. Thanks!!!

James--I wish they tought the training here like the way you described. It's funny, I actually asked the instructor "instead of three straight days of training, why not have one day on, one day off. For example, Have training on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, which would enable the student to actually work on what was just taught and try and get it down somewhat rather than flooding you with another two straight days of class without ever having a chance to work on the first days training. The problem with this is that some students are coming in from out of town and staying in hotel's, so it would only be beneficial to those who were driving home and could actually work on it on those days in between.

I guess why it bothers me so much is that I'm a perfectionist and like to try and manufacture parts the most efficient way possble. I know I will learn this Cam system because I won't give up, but I worry I won't be using it to the fullest, or program in the most efficient manner. I have an advantage in that I own the business, and do not have to program as I have associate's that do a great job. However, I want to learn M/C because as the owner, I realize it will help my business and my understanding of what my programmers go thru when asked to design/produce a part. As I stated above and in my M/C class, I feel sorry for anyone who goes through these three day class's and than has to go back to work and be expected to produce parts immediately. I know I couldn't.

Luckily, my M/C dealer has advised me that they allow any customer who has purchased the software and training from them to take the training class's as many times as you like or need, for no additional charge, other than the original training cost's. So what I will probably do is go back and take the training a second time after I have a few month's under my belt. I believe that will help me alot. I'm having the biggest problems with drawing parts. I thought it would be alot easier. Unfortuanatly, everything we make, we have to design. We never work off a print. Thanks!!!!

Machinemasterg--I was replying to James Mayette who asked what state he(cherokee) was from.

James--Believe me when I tell you, nobody wants to learn M/C more than Cherokee. He was the one pushing for this new cam system over Gibb's and everything else out there. He realizes the need to move forward and learn a new Cam system.

I believe he thought learning M/C after working with S/C for almost 10 years was going to be easier than it is. That's all.

I myself am having a very difficult time learning M/C. I expressed(as well as every single member in class) my belief that the training we went through for M/C would've been much better if it had been a 5-day course vs. the 3-day. Everything was so rushed that it never gave anyone a chance to work on any type of exercises in class. The second you were done with one aspect, it was on to the next. Truely too much information in too short a time. I forgot half the stuff we went over in class, and am having a very difficult time of it. I believe it would've been very beneficial to have the students work on some exercise's on their own in class, and have the teacher walking around offering assistence where needed. I feel sorry for any person who's boss sends them through this 3 day class, and than expect's them to come back and start producing parts right away.

I suppose it comes down to the fact that business owners do not want to lose an associate for a full week, and M/C has to compete with other Cam products out there that advertise less training. I would love to have a study conducted and see the difference between students who had 3 days vs 5 days of initial training. Look at the students 2 weeks later and I bet you would see the students with the extra 2 days training were further ahead, thus making parts faster, thus making up for the 2 additional missed days of work.

Rekd--Are you on this forum to help or criticize?

Do us all a favor. When you see a post by Cherokee, don't bother to read it. Just continue by it and stop posting your ugly remarks and name calling. Obviously, James Mayette and yourself have a personal problem with Cherokee. Please take it up with him outside the forum. Until there are two Mastercam Forums, an "expert" and a "novice", there are going to be questions asked that many find trivial and repetative. Number three of the guidelines of this forum state "The model for this Forum is users helping users." I cannot see how your response above is of any help.

If you have nothing credible to post concerning the topic, than don't bother typing.

[ 03-15-2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: DrewG ]

"Some customers just are not worth having, and you're one of them. Why don't you at least tell us what state you're from? Afraid of the backlash?"

Not everyone is as knowledgable about Mastercam as you, James. Cherokee is trying to convert from the S/C he is use to using. When I was purchasing M/C for my business the salesman said "getting a post like the one above was no problem. If we have to make a custom post it would be $250.00."

No big deal.

When we were in class and asked their instructor about a post like above, he said "he never saw a post like that, and said it would take alot of time and be real difficult".

We didn't realize it was such a strange post, and wanted another opionion, that's all, nothing more. Lastly, we're from New Jersey, 1775 Hwy.34, in Wall (732)556-1150 Precision CNC, Inc. What's that got to do with anything?????

When we were in class(Cherokee Chief & I), the teacher said he never saw a post like that used, and that it would be alot of work to get the post to look like that. We find this post very easy to navigate, simple to run a single test peice by hitting the block delete key on the control, and very easy to make an edit at the control for feeds and speeds. It seemed like in class the correct post would've been to copy each tool path for every offset used(ex.G54, G55, etc) instead of using sub's like in the above post. But you know how much a nightmare that is if your at the control trying to edit a feed or speed. If you were running 20 identiacl parts, you would be forced to edit the feed or speed 20 times, rather than just once in the sub. Another reason we use this type of post is to save memory. We do alot of engraving, and the post is super long. We wouldn't have enough memory in the control if we copied the tool path 20 times to do 20 parts.

Everyone that works with it loves it, so it's not a matter of "guys who just don't want to change", rather no one has shown us a post that's so easy to understand, and so easy to edit multiple parts right at the control. If we needed to add a few more parts on a fixture, we just add the more offsets. We sometimes will use a G10 at the top in order to load all the offsets everytime the job is started.

Why is this post with the subs so strange or foreign to everyone???