Backplot, verify with and without TrueSolid...

[Tom Szelag]

Yea, I'm a bit new to MasterCam still.

 

First question I have is what exactly does TrueSolid mode do for you? Seems like it lets you pan around, rotate, save your result as an STL, that sorta deal. So why wouldn't you run TS on? Whats its drawback?

 

And then backplotting...the grey "cut" it leaves seems kinda crappy unless you're doing something purely 2D. And even then, if you're running anything other than a flat EM or a drill (like, a chamfer mill) doesn't seem that useful because it won't give you a good idea of your real cut. The nice thing is you can step it, which as far as I know you can't do in verify.

 

Stepping in verify...sounds like it would be a cool feature for X.

[DaveR]

Quote:

 

.......And then backplotting...the grey "cut" it leaves seems kinda crappy unless you're doing something purely 2D. And even then, if you're ........

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Oh no.

[Tom Szelag]

Hey, I could be wrong on all this. The guy I'm more or less apprenticing with, has got all the experience in the world but is kinda stuck in his ways of doing things. So I could be totally off base and missing the whole idea, which is why I posted in the first place...

[DaveR]

Did ya check out the "verify" thread below?

 

Your timing is impeccable.

[Tom Szelag]

I did see it. Seemed like a whole lot of crap flinging with a low signal to noise ratio.

[DaveR]

Yup, exactly.

[Tom Szelag]

So can ya explain to me why you'd want to use one over the other?

 

I got no beef with the system in general. I like it. But I'm wondering the pros/cons of each method (backpolot, verify w/ TS, verify w/o TS)

[DaveR]

I can't claim to be any expert here, I just started using MC a few weeks ago so I have a long way to go.

 

I've been using backplot almost exclusively because I've found the verify to be kind of painful to use in terms of time, not being able to rotate real time, and a few things that it's missed.

 

TS seems to take longer, but you can pan and rotate after it's done. You are stuck with one view unless it's turned on.

 

For everything I've done so far (a grand total of three parts) backplot has been most helpful.

 

Wish I could be more insightful here but that's as far as I've gotten.

 

Maybe some long timer can step in and enlighten us both on what we have missed.

[crazy^millman]

I persoannly have made 1000's of parts with Mastercam and find these features to do everything I need them to do. DaveR is on the right track though with thing but I use STL of Models to verify to. I also use the WCS in conjuction with Verfiy to check a part complate and save time and I also use solids with almost no curves or lines if I can get away with it. I will do turbo to proof something out quick or see a big file quick. I use backploat ot check tools and clearences and post the code hit the green button and walk away and have done so on run time of 120 hours on a 5 axis machine making molds.

 

I use them all even export out the stl to use as a modle for setup sheets to show the operator the stage of what the part will look after each operation. Is it perfect no crappy is think is harsh but no where near as harsh as calling in complete crap or those of us who make our livings off of this software bronw nosers either becuase we like the software and pefrer it over the others we have seen or used.

 

I will say this I am a Beta Tester and we have made suggestion and CNC cares about making the software better and to think they don't is just avergating, frustration, and lack of full understanding of the product and sorry to say but 3 parts make noone a expert on anything in my book. I have been using it for over 3 years and I consider myself novice at best.

[Zero]

Turning True Solids on in Verify does just what you said....it allows you to rotate,pan,zoom, whatever you want...it creates a solid from your toolpaths basicly. It doesnt come without cost though, takes much longer to process, espescially on more complex 3d toolpaths.

 

You can use Turbo (no tool) to speed this up somewhat, which just processes the toolpaths without showing you the tool cutting the material, it just shows you the finished product after each path finishes. But Turbo can only be used with True Solids if your toolpaths are all in world top view....which means if you use the WCS on your parts instead of moving them all to world top view, you cannot use Turbo.

 

Turning True Solids off gives you results faster, but you cannot manipulate the verified part afterward, so you need to set your view to what you want to see and then open up Verify. It also decresses the resolution of the finished product on screen.

 

 

Backplotting just plots the toolpath on screen for you in user defainable colors. Its a pretty useful tool for viewing your toolpaths quick to try and see if there are any undesirable moves in there. You can also use the backplot to create geometry for you which comes in very handy sometimes.

 

 

IMO, verify is just way too slow to be used effectivly in my shop. For the most part, backplot works out for me just fine, but I cannot see the finish quality of my parts and with alot of my toolpaths its pretty hard to discern whats really happening and gouges and other undesirable stuff does slip by from time to time, both those that are most likely my fault and some that are the software's. I can see if youre doing production and you have all the time you need to make sure your toolpaths are optimized and problem free before they get to the machine, or youre cutting metal and making molds or tools or whatever then, yeah I probably would use verify and be willing to wait the sometimes hours it takes for it to give results.

But that just doesnt fly here... We build prototypes and photo models, the toolpaths I run, I run once, twice maybe. I get files in the morning and need to get models out, painted and looking their best the same night sometimes. Most of my toolpaths are all 3d and can be very large nci's, single toolpaths can be like 2 and 3 megs a piece, filtered.... theses take forever to process in Verify using True Solids, like I said earlier, hours sometimes. And thats when you can get it to verify successfuly....you can get it to work most of the time if you wrestle with it a little. But I have stuff that just kills it, crashes out MC alltogether. And turning off True Solids to me just gives less than desirable results visually and makes it so I have to verify numerous times setting up different views on the part and re-verifying for every time I want to see the back side or zoom in on an area or even just pan it a tad... I just dont have that kind of time. I know how to use it correctly, and know the information it wants and can get it to work most of the time, but it just doesnt work efficiantly or reliably enough for me to even consider using it on a daily basis.

We ended up buying MetCut Utilities a year or so before they attempted to bundle it in with MC. For a very low price it gives you manipulatable results in seconds, not minutes or hours. The visual quality leaves a little to desire (the more vertical your surfaces get the stranger they can look...) but it is accurate and fast and you can also verify your actual G-Code and not just the NCI, so you can be absolutely sure what youre seeing on screen is what youre gonna get on the machine. It has a lot of other features standard to most standalone verify software, like editing your toolpaths and the sort...

My dream is that one day MC's verify will be very similar to this, quick and easy to use and have the now cumbersome toolpath editer vamped up and easier to use built in to it for verifying/toolpath editing all at once....1 Program to do them all = CAD/CAM,Verification and Editing. No jumping back and forth with 9 different programs open at the same time to get one end result....I know its a bit much to ask..but a man can dream cant he?? I mean its already all in there...just make it better!!!!!!

 

One last piece of advice I can give you if youre going to be using verify in MC is to always save before hitting the verify button!!!!!!!! I learned that many many times the hard way... Autosave also comes in very handy for those times when you just forget to keep saving.... I have mine set to save every 5 minutes I think, and also after every toolpath I generate.

 

[ 12-03-2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Zero ]

[Richard Thomas - Mastercam UK]

szelag,

 

You can indeed Step along in Verify... if you look one button to the right of the "stop" button in the VCR-type control bar, that button is the Step button. To change how many steps it takes at any one time, go into the config (press the left most button with the question mark on it) and you can change a field called Moves/step somewhere around the middle of the config screen.

 

In Standard mode, one other thing you should be able to do is change the positioning of the light source once the verification is complete, but... ahem... this doesn't appear to be working in 9.1. I've informed CNC!

 

 

In Backplot, stepping along is a handy feature. As you're pretty new to it I'll give you a couple of tips.

1) Where you see the word "Step" in the menu, the letter "S" is underlined. That means you can press S on the keyboard instead and save your left mouse button some serious abuse

2) If you place your cursor over the Step button in the menu, and press down *both* mouse buttons, Step rips along nearly as fast as Run mode, but with the advantage that you can let go of the buttons and stop at any time (instead of pressing the Enter key while it's running and hoping for the best lol)

[Rekd™]

LoL, looks like member's 9853 and 9854 are playing single's tennis..

 

'Rekd teh do I hear a ruckus?

[heeler]

We use verify all the time, We do parts from all sides and it verifys in TS mode very well. I have changed the verify config file per another topic recomendations (search for smoothing out verify). You can press the pause/stop key and rotate your views to what you want to see next. You can also change the settings to verify faster, slower, stop on crash, or stop on tool change.

 

It works really well for us.

 

HTH

Glenn

[Tom Szelag]

I see..thanks a lot guys.