OT Plz help make systems

[Jerry Bichsel]

Bullines,

Ok, but there are major differences between the ways that Quake, etc. utilize the card/resources and how CAD/CAM does.

 

Check this out:

 

http://www.solidworks.com/swdocs/support/h...s/videotest.cfm

 

Pick a vendor and check out the limitations and which passed/failed. Also check out the reports on the Nvidia chips.

 

[ 04-21-2002, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Jerry Bichsel ]

[Bullines]

I find those results quite interesting and are probably quite accurate. Did you know that the GeForce3 and many variations of the Quadro4 use the same chipset? It's true. I'm not saying that a CAD/CAM card will blow away a "gamer" card (maybe you assumed that's what I was implying). I was trying to state that for those on a budget, a high-end so-called-gamer card can fill the bill. The major difference between a CAD/CAM card and a high-end "game" card is core speed and API support (CAD/CAM tends to go for the tried and true, and game cards go for the latest and greatest).

 

quote:

---

Ok, but there are major differences between the ways that Quake, etc. utilize the card/resources and how CAD/CAM does.

---

I have to address this, I just do. You're right. There are major differences in how an app such as Quake 3 Arena utilizes a card with compared to an app like CAD/CAM software. In the case of Quake 3 and Mstercam, both are video intensive. Both use OpenGL for many graphics routines (Quake 3 uses OpenGL more extensively). So lets say both apps call:

 

glShadeModel (GL_SMOOTH);

 

for some smooth Gouraud shading Both are making a call that it expects the chipset on the video card to understand. The difference? A game is doing this constantly while the player is moving or lighting changes or the scene changes, etc... CAD/CAM software only has to do this when the user rotates, pans, zooms, etc which is not all that often in comparison. Does CAD/CAM software use the OpenGL accumilation buffer in situations such as scene antialiasing, or the constant calculation of shadows resulting from multiple light sources? Not really since the object (read: part being worked on) doesn't move a whole lot.

 

My point being that CAD/CAM cards should be the first choice, but if it comes down to buying a "game" card, there are options available.

 

[ 04-21-2002, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Bullines ]

[kwolf]

Hi,

 

My deadline to make systems is nearly over yet I'm hesitant about CPU. Will you tell me why anybody doesn't recommend Athlon? Is it because some instabilities with their motherboards? Please tell me what are the problems with it .

I hope Bullines and other users can tell me what should I do about CPU.

 

Awaiting your replies.

[cadcam]

As for CPU on the mC side you could go with the Athlon but I can not speak for the other softwares.Vary good chance you will have no trouble with the SW but now you have to look at UG.

 

So far any one I know running Athlon with MC is vary happy.

But I would say to go with either a Abit board or Asus with the Athlon.

Much better combo.

 

JM2C

[Fig sign]

Hi ,All.

I use to assemble and repaire at home computeres . Speaking about AMD - it simply rocks. With a good motherboard it is far more faster ,reliable then Intel and very stable too.

If you remember a couple of years ago there were problems with AMD under NT and Linux .

NO problems now and speaking about Mastercam with my experience no problems at all.

Then what stops people from using it -the magic of the name which is famouse for their former reputation not relating the actual situation.

And my preference not to use ATI ,even Radeon is not a card for cad works .

Even in games GeforCe 2 is better .

Simply install Unreal Tournament and have a look at the difference.

Speaking about Ide disks go with Maxtor not western digital .

For five last years I changed to people a lot of defected hard disks 90% of them western digital .

They simply tend to die after 3 years MAx if they are over 3 GB .

Motherboard -Gigabite .

System windows 2000 or NT service pack 6.

Memmory DDR .

And good luck and have a fun with your PC.

[kwolf]

Hi ,

 

What chipset is best for Athlon Motherboards. VIA,Sis,... ?

[Bullines]

quote:

---

Simply install Unreal Tournament

---

plasttav, you're speaking my language

 

kwolf, AMD recommends Athlon mobo's here. I'm not a fan of Via; they can be a pain sometimes.

[Jerry Bichsel]

Bullines,

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, just trying to assist kwolf in setting up a system that will be as trouble free running the apps he listed as possible.

 

Beings that you can get refurbished Oxygen boards direct from 3DLabs, you can save some $$.

 

Oxygen VX1, AGP4, 32MB $99.00

Oxygen GVX1, AGP 32MB VGA MDR20 Stereo $249.00

 

Not much of a difference in $$ from Geforce3 that range from $109-$199 on Pricewatch.com.

 

Or you can get an Oxygen GVX1 Pro, AGP 64MB VGA DVI-I Stereo $425.00

 

If you have an existing Oxygen card, you can also do a 'trade-up' and save some $$.

 

[ 04-22-2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Jerry Bichsel ]

[Bullines]

quote:

---

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, just trying to assist kwolf in setting up a system that will be as trouble free running the apps he listed as possible.

---

No problem I just like to play devil's advocate when I feel it's neccessary. What someone should get in a system and what they actually get are usually quite different, in my experience. I think it's a good idea to give people as much info as possible so their informed, no matter their choice of system in the end. I think we did that

 

[ 04-22-2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Bullines ]

[William Grizwald]

I'm not sure if your single or dual cpu config is decided but a little more info:

 

If your going to keep this system for a while (2-3 yrs), consider the dual setup. No, Mastercam nor Solidworks support SMP yet but I would assume it is in their near future(?) Windows 2K itself also works faster for many tasks on the dual.

 

Along that line, AMD still does not have a dual mobo available. Perhaps there's some news on that?

The single Athelon works just fine on with UG. It is not officially supported though. Trust me - it is the graphics cards that really matter here anyways.

 

On the INTEL platform the XEON is the only chip supported on the dual mobo at this time (unless you want to drop back to a pentium III). Don't assume the XEON is really expensive. I see right now you can pick up a Supermicro P4DC6 mobo with two XEON 2.2 w/512k chips for $1,615 on Pricewatch.com. Ram would be extra.(I've got an eye on that setup as well). That would be a SCREAMING workstation. I'm sure I'll be flamed about it's requirement for Rambus ram but it's not much more and works just fine and is reliable. It also requires AGP 4 graphics card (1.5v).

 

Given the fact your talking about UG, Solidworks, & MC on the same box, I'd go the dual route and load it up with ram since you've already made a $30k investment in software why go cheap now.

 

Graphics cards? I like the Elsa Gloria series. Rock solid.

 

-William

 

quote:

---

My deadline to make systems is nearly over yet I'm hesitant about CPU. Will you tell me why anybody doesn't recommend Athlon? Is it because some instabilities with their motherboards? Please tell me what are the problems with it .

I hope Bullines and other users can tell me what should I do about CPU.

---

 

[ 04-22-2002, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: William Grizwald ]

[JAMMAN]

Though the Mastercam program itself doesn't utilize SMP it DOES BENIFIT from it and does run faster in dual processor systems as compared to single processor systems, when running more than one app. Though I hate to admit it (my feelings for the monopoly microsoft showing there) I have noticed win2k does a decent job of dividing up the duties of both processors when multiple apps are running. End of story. If you can afford it, go dual. As far as AMD goes, I like it- but I'm not sure if Mastercam officially supports it or not.

[Jerry Bichsel]

That reminds me....

Way back in '96 I had the opportunity to benchmark MC on single and dual processor PC's. Both were Dell Pentium Pro 200Mhz, Win NT, setup identically except one had dual procs.

 

When performing the exact same operations in MC, the dual was typically 15% faster than the single.

 

The other advantage is that if you have some huge program in MC that is going to crunch for a while, one proc can do that while the other handles other functions, i.e. Word, Excel, SW, etc. with little if any hit on performance.